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Comment by lordleft | Hacker News Reader

One of my favorite passages from the Meditations is Marcus' observation that Stoicism has value regardless of one's theology and metaphysics:

Either there is a fatal necessity and invincible order, or a kind Providence, or a confusion without a purpose and without a director. If then there is an invincible necessity, why do you resist? But if there is a Providence that allows itself to be propitiated, make yourself worthy of the help of the divinity. But if there is a confusion without a governor, be content that in such a tempest you have yourself a certain ruling intelligence. (XII.14)

https://howtobeastoic.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/gods-or-atoms...

I have found Stoicism an ecumenical movement in part because of the above.

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I find Gregory Hay's translation much more readable, here's the same passage:

Fatal necessity, and inescapable order. Or benevolent Providence. Or confusion—random and undirected. If it’s an inescapable necessity, why resist it? If it’s Providence, and admits of being worshipped, then try to be worthy of God’s aid. If it’s confusion and anarchy, then be grateful that on this raging sea you have a mind to guide you. And if the storm should carry you away, let it carry off flesh, breath and all the rest, but not the mind. Which can’t be swept away.

I love seeing multiple translations of this great man's words. My translation by, Martin Hammond:

"Either the compulsion of destiny and an order allowing no deviation, or a providence open to prayer, or a random welter without direction. Now if undeviating compulsion, why resist it? If providence admitting the placation of prayer, make yourself worthy of divine assistance. If an ungoverned welter, be glad that in such a maelstrom you have within yourself a directing mind of your own: if the flood carries you a way, let it take your flesh, your breath, all else - but it will not carry away your mind.

I particularly like Hammond's recurring use of the phrase "directing mind", which is, to me, is very important to Stoicism.

It's important to remember that Marcus Aurelius is the only Stoic who thinks this. For all other Stoics, ethics is grounded in metaphysics and theology, not independent of them.

Not only ecumenical, but more broadly applicable. The thing that strikes me about the three areas is that there are areas in life very much like each: there are some inevitabilities, there are some areas where proper appeal or preparation make for a more graceful outcome, and there's chaotic occurances/domains which you have to ride out or tame some portion of. Be ready for each, and if possible, know which is which.

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