Comment by geofft | Hacker News Reader

Comment by geofft | Hacker News Reader

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This is quite at odds with my experience with my iPhone, so I'm confused.

I don't have an iCloud account. I'm not sure what "basic functions for a smartphone" I'm unable to use, but, I don't want my photos backed up to iCloud - I'll handle that on my own, for the photos I actually want somewhere other than on my local device. Everything otherwise seems to work.

I don't use iMessage. I've ticked the little box that says to use regular SMS and not iMessage. (This was back when there were stories of people getting stuck on iMessage and losing messages when they switched to another OS, and I wasn't sure I wanted to buy into the Apple platform permanently. I could probably switch back now, since I've been a regular iOS user for years and I hear that https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ works.) Multi-party SMS works fine. Multi-party Signal, Hangouts, Slack, etc. chats also work great. Similarly, I don't use FaceTime, but I've got tons of messaging apps that support video calls on their own.

Generally things have been fine, so I'm curious what specifically hasn't worked for you.

I find Apple extremely annoying when you disable iCloud: they keep reminding you to enable it on every occasion (updates, freeing up space, going through photos, etc).

Yes! I can’t stand all the pop up reminders, they never stop.

Hm, is that a matter of personal taste? I get the prompt for each major version update, but since it takes a few clicks to get back in after an update, one more doesn't bother me. I don't get it on point releases. There's a message about iCloud photo backups when looking at space usage but it's not even a popup/dialog, you can scroll right past it. So it doesn't bother me.

Looking harder, I think what's happening is I do have iCloud, I just don't use it. I don't have automatic backups of photos, I don't have iCloud Drive (what it prompts me for on software updates), etc. Everything is unchecked except Find My iPhone. I haven't had any downside from having iCloud in this active-but-unused state.

I think the GP meant that without an Apple ID, you basically can't install apps to begin with, and most of the OS's apps also require an Apple ID to work to their fullest.

However, I don't share the same degree of skepticism as the GP.

I definitely have an Apple ID. But I don't have iCloud enabled, and without it, having an Apple ID doesn't bother me.

My Apple ID isn't my normal email address and that hasn't been a problem: people don't contact me through it and Apple doesn't force me to publish it to others.

In practice, if not in theory, I think Android works the same way. Yes, there are other app stores, and yes you can install untrusted, but in practice, most people just use the Play Store (requiring a Google account) and if they allow untrusted or use another app store, it's not the default.

I'm not arguing Apple and Google are the same, far from, but in this area, they seem the same to me for the majority of the population. (Android user)

Lock-in is more than just "not giving you the chance to opt out ahead of time"

It's also "give you the chance to opt out LATER after you've invested some time into it."

Most people don't change defaults. So if they buy an iPhone, they are going to go all in on iMessage, whether they've heard of those horror stories of people losing messages or not.

Then, if they ever think they could switch to another OS, they experience the friction you describe, and decide it's not worth it after all.

You can disable iMessage at any point and it works. New texts from iMessage users get sent over SMS instead. You don't have to do it in advance—I just did so out of paranoia, and I don't think other people need to do the same.

(Of course, one side effect is that you can't use iMessage any more and iMessage-specific features are unavailable to you, e.g., group texts might get weird. I don't know of any platform that has the property that you can quit it and still use its features.)

> You can disable iMessage at any point and it works.

Maybe now, but there was a time when iMessage would continue to hijack your number and divert messages from your phone, even if you disabled it.

Also, have you ever tried extricating your photos from iCloud? It's ridiculously complicated, and Apple doesn't give a bulk "download all my photos and delete from your servers". You have to go photo by photo and download them.

I have an iphone, but I think a few things would be nice:

- not identify yourself to apple

- be able to firewall apps - be able to determine who your app is contacting and block them

- allow running of your own software (without asking permission from apple)

- be able to turn off location services (even if the Location Services checkbox is off, apple continuously contacts ls.apple.com)

- be able to turn off "side features" of wifi (crowdsourced location of your access points), bluetooth (ibeacons) and nfc (currently you can't disable)

- be able to firewall apps - be able to determine who your app is contacting and block them

FYI you can do this with an ad blocker app that users VPN.

- allow running of your own software (without asking permission from apple)

There’s the option to sideload apps but it does require a Mac and developer knowledge.

- firewall

I have an ad blocker app (adblockios.com) that uses an internal 127.0.0.1 VPN. The version I have was yanked by apple and they had to change to a less powerful "dns based solution".

In any case, a true firewall would be my holy grail.

- sideloading

I believe sideloading only allows you to run an app for 7 days (You have to continually ask for permission)

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