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Comment by bt3 | Hacker News Reader

Can someone explain the tech here? Obviously the brains of this is a Google data center beaming the game through a Chromecast to your TV (or in-app on your Pixel/ whatever). Is there any tech in the controller? What "costs" $129 if there's a subscription model attached to this?

If the controller is indeed "dumb" (just sending inputs), why wouldn't there be compatibility with Xbox or PS4 controllers?

If the history of non-main consoles has taught us anything (Nvidia Shield, Ouya, etc), you have to have games and a controller. Seems Google has games covered, but why try and reinvent the wheel with a new controller?

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> Is there any tech in the controller?

Yes. The controller connects directly to your game instance over WiFi. It doesn't need to go through a box first and be relayed (this can shave a significant amount of latency off controller inputs).

> What "costs" $129 if there's a subscription model attached to this?

For $129 you get a controller ($69), a Chromecast Ultra ($60), 3 months of Stadia Pro ($30), the full Destiny 2 game with all the DLC ($?? I forget).

You may be confused with how Stadia Pro works. It's just like PS Plus, you occasionally get a free game or two and it enables you to play at 4K in 5.1 surround sound. Without Stadia Pro you can still play any Stadia game you own, without a fee.

> why wouldn't there be compatibility with Xbox or PS4 controllers?

But there is compatibility with XBox and PS4 controllers. It was in the video and in their original announcement. You just can't really use them with the Chromecast AFAIK but you can with any computer and some tablets / phones.

> but why try and reinvent the wheel with a new controller?

You can bring your own or use theirs for the best latency / game experience possible on Stadia.

> this can shave a significant amount of latency off controller inputs

How on earth would it do that? WiFi alone is a significant part of the latency here! Not to mention the huge jitter it brings. Screw in your smart cheap-ass 802.11b light bulb and watch your game feel off.

No, they want this stuff to work with Chrome out of the box and so they needed to cut out the middle-man anyway, and people aren't exactly prepared to put an Ethernet cable into it. But let's not pretend WiFi is somehow an improvement over connecting it to a PC that just blasts your input out through Ethernet (where it then traverses all the same boxes that it does "over WiFi" anyways, minus the shared medium that is used to stream 4k to your TV)

However much latency a wifi network has, making the controlled connect to another local box and that box to relay the signal through the same wifi would definitely by the latency of the wifi + T right? They are shaving off T.

I think where this gets tricky is when the display is plugged in via Ethernet.

But the Chromecast Ultra they're selling with it doesn't support USB or Bluetooth (or Ethernet), which makes it not really an option for that. The controller I believe works through Bluetooth and USB if you're using a device that has those.

> How on earth would it do that? WiFi alone is a significant part of the latency here!

Today there is input and display lag. You send the input to the box for processing. In streaming you send the input to a box who then relays that to a server. If you can cut out the server you can reduce a bunch of latency. It won't have lower latency than a locally played game but you can make it close enough.

> Not to mention the huge jitter it brings. Screw in your smart cheap-ass 802.11b light bulb and watch your game feel off.

Your knowledge of WiFi seems to be about 8 years out of date. Not only is it really difficult to find 802.11b anything anymore (even stuff buried in a basement; seriously 802.11b devices started coming out in 1999) but this is pretty much a non issue in almost any router made in the past decade. The majority of routers (especially the better ones) use dual or tri bands to better handle interference and backwards compatibility with older standards.

If you have issues with your WiFi I'd suggest upgrading your router. Seriously, they're pretty great nowadays especially if you get a triband almost anything :)

> If the controller is indeed "dumb" (just sending inputs), why wouldn't there be compatibility with Xbox or PS4 controllers?

The controller is not dumb, it connects to Google.

Also, as I understood it other "supported" controllers can be used (per https://youtu.be/k-BbW6zAjL0?t=683) but then you need to use another device/platform that does the connect-to-Google part, e.g. Chrome on PC.

edit: http://stadia.com/faq says USB HID controllers are supported on Chrome and mobile.

edit 2: and https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/9338852 explicitly says PS4 and Xbox One controllers are supported.

Yep, I played assassins creed on chrome on my mac with a usb xbox 360 controller and it worked great.

My understanding is that the controller supposedly connects directly to Google through WiFi rather than going through the device you're playing on.

Hmm. Does this mean that the controller is the "brains", and after sending and receiving the game play data, then needs to beam it to your device? Or do the two devices (controller + screen) work together to handle some of this?

I fear for the latency in general.

Neither device is the brains. The controller uploads inputs. The Chromecast downloads outputs.

The brains is Google’s cloud.

I would think it's just sending data on your inputs to the data center directly to reduce latency, but otherwise has no other brains.

Right. The idea seems to be that the controller directly talks to Google via WiFi to minimize the input latency, while the display device also directly talks to Google to minimize the output latency.

Sounds like they will support other USB controllers on Chrome.

> or in the Chrome web browser with the standard HID controller of your choice.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/6/18654632/google-stadia-pri...

That's $9.99 x 3 (3 months of Stadia Pro) + $69 (Controller) + $69 (Chromecast Ultra) = $167.97. Just with that, it's a 30% discount, roughly.

I'm not counting the cost of Destiny 2.

And it appears as though it will be compatible with other controllers. (Probably not the Chromecast version, though.)

Destiny 2 is going F2P, so it's $0

If Destiny 2 is F2P, will they have stuff you need to buy? And will Stadia Founders get that for free? I don't know, do you?

It sounds like the base game will be free, but this offer also includes the Year 2 and Year 3 DLC, which probably will not.

Only the 1st Year content is going F2P; The Destiny 2 included with Stadia has all the content.

"And it appears as though it will be compatible with other controllers. (Probably not the Chromecast version, though.)"

May I ask how you arrived at this conclusion?

From http://stadia.com/faq:

> Do I need to use your Controller? (Stadia Controller)

> No, you can use many popular HID compliant controllers when playing via USB cable on Chrome or mobile. To play on your TV you will need to use the Stadia Controller and Google Chromecast Ultra.

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