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Comment by signal11 | Hacker News Reader

> no privacy issues yet (money is directly debited from account without a mastercard/visa involved)

Isn’t Aadhar (fingerprints + iris scan) needed to have a bank account? If yes, then it’s a bit disingenuous to say there are no privacy issues.

> No risk of fraud

A cursory search will show plenty of press articles re UPI fraud. For instance [1].

[1] https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/personal-finance/...

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>Isn’t Aadhar (fingerprints + iris scan) needed to have a bank account? If yes, then it’s a bit disingenuous to say there are no privacy issues.

Nopes. Govt tried really hard. Attorney General didn't really sound far from Facebook's primary lawyer. But Supreme Court shut it down.

>A cursory search will show plenty of press articles re UPI fraud. For instance [1].

I should expand that I meant technical fraud - your card being cloned on a PoS, or a malware infected website siphoning card details, lax controls by card issuers etc (Amex is notorious for approving payments with just the card number and CVV)

Stuff like this is hard on UPI BUT it is isn't idiot proof. You can't really make a system secure when the human victim willingly hands over information as was alluded by your link.

I believe Aadhar is mandatory if you're filing tax in India[1]. And the government earlier in the year passed a bill to undo some of the supreme court protections and facilitate sharing of Aadhar data with third parties[2].

So unless you're too poor to file taxes (or are not an Indian resident), bank accounts can always be linked to Aadhar, even if it happens via the PAN.

[1] https://qz.com/india/1351263/supreme-court-verdict-how-india...

[2] https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/jmxPkXXGWeEfiAsCsA1xnO/Opin...

Re Aadhar -- HN readers should note that IndiaStack (indiastack.org, very popular with VCs operating in India) relies a lot on Aadhar, so a lot of people in Indian Startups have a financial interest in not seeing the downsides of Aadhar.

You're moving goal posts.

Aadhar being necessary for tax filing !== Aadhar is mandatory for operating a bank account, claims which you made in previous posts.

Yes, going backwards government can indeed find your bank accounts because you might quote them on tax forms but having Aadhar is NOT necessary for operating a bank account. I have multiple accounts, none of which have been closed or service being denied for lack of an aadhar number.

>Re Aadhar -- HN readers should note that IndiaStack (indiastack.org, very popular with VCs operating in India) relies a lot on Aadhar, so a lot of people in Indian Startups have a financial interest in not seeing the downsides of Aadhar.

This is exaggerated. People can lead perfectly functional lives without quoting Aadhar to anybody except the taxman. You're pushing it.

Also I am pretty sure government can find all of your bank accounts without Aadhar, using a court order.

A huge criticism of Aadhar is that with Aadhar, a court order isn’t necessary. The Aadhar act allows any lookup authorized by mid level bureaucrats.

Also, given that a lot of Aadhar data has leaked (even the biometrics have leaked in some states[2]) and given the lack of privacy legislation in India, it’s trivial for private entities, including scammers, to know your bank accounts.

Wide availability of bank account info has enabled a number of social engineering attacks[1].

Separately UPI remains vulnerable to SIM cloning as the phone number is crucial to UPI identity.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?&hl=en&q=upi+fraud+in+india

[2] https://medium.com/karana/gujarat-biometric-leak-and-registe...

You should check the Aadhaar amendments bill (previously pushed as an ordinance). The government is pushing for Aadhaar linkage on different fronts again, and is also making private access available and easy. One of the places where linkage is being proposed (as it was in the past) is for driving licenses and vehicle registrations.

See this recent opinion piece. [1]

[1]: https://thewire.in/law/aadhaar-rbi-supreme-court-uidai

you don't need an aadhar card to open a bank account only a pan card(no biometrics) issued by tax dept, which you can link with your aadhar card by your own choice. The govt wants you to do this but the caanot force you as the supreme court has said.

According to the Supreme Court ruling, "the Aadhaar number must still be quoted to file income tax returns and apply for a personal account number (PAN)."[1]

[1] https://qz.com/india/1351263/supreme-court-verdict-how-india...

This is just one source but there's lot of others reporting the same thing. Do you have a citation that says otherwise?

I don't have a aadhar card yet and I don't intend to get one. I have a pan card but I had it made a few years ago. I am not aware if things have changed, I'll ask around tomorrow for ground information.

Avoid getting it for as long as you can hold out. If you’re not reliant on government subsidies, the only coercion now is to link it with PAN and also quote it in the tax returns.

If you can afford the penalty for late filing of tax returns, go for that. There are still several review petitions against last year’s verdict on Aadhaar. The Supreme Court, as usual, is delaying hearing those. Check out no2uid on Twitter, rethinkaadhaar.in and others.

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