Nintendo Switch Lite: a smaller, cheaper Switch built for handheld play | Hacker News Reader

Nintendo Switch Lite: a smaller, cheaper Switch built for handheld play

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114 pointsTomte94 comments

As an avid Splatoon player, something I've come to learn is that there are players in the highest rank who play mobile and even can't/don't/won't play on a TV. This boggles my mind and should give you an idea that this isn't just for people trying to play simple 2d RPGs that the 3DS already offers. At the same time, it is quite the ploy to push people over from 3DS to Switch via Pokemon.

Since I don't see the Switch on here often, I'd love to bring some other points up about the original Switch that the HN community might find interesting:

* If I play over wifi and someone else is streaming Netflix/Hulu, I experience lag and disconnects. As soon as I plug in to ethernet, no problems at all. Seems bufferbloat and wireless noise are a real problem even on an up-to-date OpenWRT router with ~5 year old hardware.

* Joycons require only a few feet of signal travel and as few wireless devices in the area as possible as well. Also large surfaces like the TV can mess them up. I've found keeping the console in a drawer under the TV that slides out another foot really helps, and putting devices into airplane mode is sometimes necessary, but usually pushing them a couple feet away from the line of sight between devices is sufficient.

I've never experienced such obvious and impactful wireless problems before. I guess latency has never been something I cared so much about either though!

edit: and I should be clear, I'm not super salty about these issues. Maybe I should be, but I play this thing for fun and the engineer in me finds it interesting. Would love to see joycons made for adult hands with wireless signal that isn't awful, but I'm not holding my breath.

The pro controller is significantly better for the comfort of adult hands. The sticks are just a little too long though, so the travel is a bit far. Might want to look at third party versions.

This is true, and I have one and it has much better signal too, but I prefer joycons still. I like having independent hands for both comfort and also the motion controls in Splatoon (which are honestly better than a mouse) make more sense to me with an independent hand than joined hands if that makes sense.

Also helps that the pro controller actually has a d-pad. I get why the joy cons do not have a dedicated d-pad (for when using a single joy con as a controller), but it is terrible when playing certain games, like Mario Maker, in handheld mode.

To contrast this, I found that I much prefer to play Celeste with the joy-con buttons. The Pro's D-Pad is mostly excellent, but it seems a bit too eager to trigger diagonal inputs, which in a tight platformer like Celeste is typically a death.

Of course, the left Joy-con still has those signal disconnect issues...

There's a fix you can do if you want to open up your pro controller, basically putting a bit of tape on the lower 3rd of each d-pad sensor helps limit those accidental presses.

> Would love to see joycons made for adult hands with wireless signal that isn't awful, but I'm not holding my breath.

The WiiMote comes to mind.

Of 120 hours of Breath of the Wild I played 115 in handheld mode. Graphics look better on the screen, kids can watch what they want on the TV while I play.

Oh that's true, I loved BoTW handheld too. Splatoon is a different animal for me though, I don't know how people do it.

As an OLED TV owner, no way do the graphics do not look better on the built-in screen.

1)Network issues. I have a brand new top to bottom Ubiquiti Unfi setup in my house. The switch constantly tries to connect to my outside AP even though it in the same room as my NanoHD. The UniFi forums have some issues about Nintendo switches not roaming. The switch is not roaming and it causes association errors and timeouts on my dashboard.

2)Joycon drift issues on Mario Kart when using the joy cons split in half for 2 players. No drifting whatsoever in BOTW or others.

All in all it’s a fantastic console with an awesome ecosystem. Lots of old Square and other console ports are being made. I really enjoy playing much more than my Xbox.

I wonder if you do drift in BoTW but you don't notice? Like my one stick will go 100% forward for 1/4 second which in BoTW really doesn't matter but in MK it'll break a kart drift and that is verrrry noticeable.

Interesting about your Ubiquiti. I've been meaning to spy on my Switch networking behavior. I'm really curious if I can even watch the joycons resync via control frames or something.

Nice points here. The real issues are the Joy-Con, because the Wireless can be solved with an ethernet adapter, but the Joy-Con get crazy drift on the left stick (3-for-3-pairs of them in my case) and the signal is horrific. I used to have the switch docked behind my TV on the stand, but the signal to the left one particularly was impossibly bad, in the end I ended up having to move the switch to line-of-sight which is slightly annoying when you have a nice tidy setup and the switch dock just randomly sitting off to the side, but the disconnects become really, really infuriating when you're 10 feet from the switch it the connection drops constantly.

I haven't noticed such issues with the Pro controller.

What I'd love to see are a more portable dock (I play almost always in TV mode) and a re-work of the Joy-Con that fixes the drift and signal issues.

I also have drift (maybe?) issues. One of my lefts will sporadically slam forwards and won't register anything else for like 1/4 second which is pretty horrendous in Splatoon. BoTW/Picross eh. One of my rights will pull left until I do a bluetooth re-pair and calibrate. I find it odd that neither of them are consistent? Like why only sometimes, and why the one for a split second and the other until something is done about it?

I've been meaning to get electronics cleaner to test.

I've done a fair bit of testing with mine, have even modded my left cons with antenna extensions. There are two issues at play; first, the analogue sticks are crap and a bit of dust, human adult usage, frequent usage, or some combination of the above, makes the sticks register even when they're not being pressed. This results, for example in; if I put the Joy-Con down on the table while in the eShop, it'll bounce around every item all by itself. if I'm in a game, it'll keep walking in a particular direction until i flick/tap/move the stick to stop it.

The second issue is the signal one (hence the antenna mod). I'm an adult male with large hands (I can practically hide an entire Joy-Con in one hand). If you close your hand over it completely, it'll drop signal (the left on in particular) because it has a PCB antenna instead of the off-board antenna like the right con, it also doesn't help, that if you touch the metal strip on the con, you likely ground the signal as that strip becomes a shield; In normal use the metal strip is oriented to the open part of your hand, but with large hands, you're going to touch it anyway.

This second issue with signal loss, causes a very similar effect, in that (usually) the last direction pressed before the connection dropped will continue until it is reconnected.

Did the antennas help? Of the four, my original right is the worst with signal. The new pair has the drift issues while the original pair still has no drift issues. The new left one is the one that sporadically drifts whereas the new right one is the one that is consistently OK until after coming out of sleep.

As you can see, playing with reliable controllers now requires a bit of a decision tree navigated via the controllers current moods...

My colleague doesn't use the dock anymore because it is nothing but a glorified USB-C power adapter combined with an input for the HDMI signal.

However, due to Nintendo messing up the USB-C standard, this is dangerous and can brick the system! Otherwise, what would work is a USB-C dongle that transmits enough juice to the Switch (but not too much!), has an HDMI input to get the signal to the TV and voila, portability solved.

But no, Nintendo basically ensured that this is Russian roulette which can end up bricking your system.

Absolutely, I've considered a bunch of adapters, I even own one for my laptop that _should_ work with the switch, but I don't dare use it having read about issues of the third-party HDMI adapters bricking consoles. If I recall, they're blowing the power fuse because Nintendo is incorrectly negotiating PD.

> As an avid Splatoon player, something I've come to learn is that there are players in the highest rank who play mobile and even can't/don't/won't play on a TV.

Do you know why? I'm curious to know.

I guess that, when you are playing on a TV, you don't have a 'full range of motion' because you need to continue facing the TV, but I don't know of anyone who does a 180 turn in Splatoon by spinning in real life--I was under the impression everybody uses the right control stick to rotate the camera for large motions, and then uses the motion controls for fine-tuned movements.

Splatoon is interesting in that respect, between handheld/detached joycon/pro controller/motion/stick you have how many different ways to turn all requiring different bio mechanics? Like motion with a pro controller is absolutely not the same as motion with a joycon and is not the same as motion handheld. It's amazing to try them all. I can't hack the pro because in high pressure 180 scenarios, I'm so tuned to huge movements with my wrist and small adjustments with the stick. The pro is reversed.

Anyway, I haven't gotten a good why from everyone I've heard that from but it seems often they just really like handheld mode, playing wherever. Sometimes they're kids living in their parents house.

I use my handheld exclusively on any non-turned based style games because the input lag on my television for action games is just too noticeable.

Vaguely related, I had a lightbulb moment when setting up the A/V system in my current place – literally every single device that needed network would accept an ethernet connection. One switch later and BAM! vastly less WiFi competition.

Ha! It really makes a difference. If I have my work and personal laptops and phones all in the living room simultaneously and the switch is on wifi, the cons desync and the network lags. Put them all on airplane and the switch on ethernet and absolutely no problems at all. It's pretty incredible.

Kind of the opposite of what I would want. I only use mine while docked to a TV. If you cut off the controllers and the screen you could probably make a black box version for $150. Or make it more powerful and keep it at $200.

For a mobile only Switch to make sense for me it would need to be small enough to fit in a pocket.

There's games that only work handheld (because of the touchscreen), though. Removing the ability to dock (without removing the ability to connect more controllers) doesn't split the library the same way removing the non-docked mode would.

I can live with that. Sacrifices were made for the Switch Lite, too.

They mention in the article that there are some games that won't work on the Switch Lite.

It makes sense for large families, college students, kids who haul everything in backpacks, frequent travelers, and people who don’t own televisions.

I never take mine anywhere, and will definitely be looking to trade-in.

I agree with you (only like to play docked) but my son only plays it handheld. I bet it’s common for people to strongly prefer one way or the other, favoring either higher resolution more immersive graphics, or that intimate/private feeling of having the screen right in your hands.

I use mine in docked mode most of the time when home, but I love the ability to just bring it with me and play on long train rides and the likes. I also bring it when on vacation – it's portable enough that it's easy to just bring along the dock as well in case I want to hook it up to the hotel tv or such. I don't think I'd be interested in a console-only switch version to be honest, nor the Lite. The regular switch is just right, and ticks all the boxes for me.

Sony tried that with the Vita TV and it did not do very well. Granted, they also handicapped it in stupid ways with a whitelist of compatible games. Anything that relied on the Vita's rear touchscreen wasn't allowed, though hackers have worked around that by mapping it to the touchpad of the Dual Shock 4.

Agreed.

To add to this, with my new 3DS I have a non-subscription Virtual Console library of NES, SNES, Genesis, Master System, GB/GBC, GBA, TG16 as well as the existing DS, 3DS, and new 3DS games. That's a huge unique library of games that are on my backlog I want to play still going all the way back.

If you hack it, you can even re-package ROM files into the Virtual Console game wrappers and play ROM hacks from places like romhacking.net. There are some really crazy fun improvements. Such an example is Super Mario Land DX [0].

I would like a Switch, but it's not portable like the 3DS is portable and my backlog is huge. It's more like tablet or small laptop like portable and with a huge backlog I want to play, it's hard to justify. That said, I'll probably cave just to for Link's Awakening, I'm weak.

[0] https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4477/

I'm confused by this. They took the Switch and removed everything that made it uniquely successful to make the Switch Lite. The naming doesn't even make sense anymore. The point is that you can "switch" between TV mode and portable mode, as well as "switch" between one player with two joycons and two players with a joycon each. And it's not particularly portable either for a device that has no TV connectivity. It's bigger than the 3DS XL, which itself is pretty big, and it won't fit comfortably in a pocket, due to the bulging joysticks on one side and the bulging trigger buttons on the other.

Although they keep denying it, Nintendo has made it pretty clear that the Switch is the replacement for both the Wii U and 3DS console lines. For people who want a portable experience, there's no reason to go for a full-size Switch when they won't use half of its functionality. That's who this is marketed toward, and the special edition for Pokemon Sword and Shield only seems to confirm that idea. This isn't for the people who want a family console but would rather have a personal one instead, so the lack of ability to switch to two players doesn't make as much of a difference.

I agree that it's not as portable as the 3DS. However, there's size comparisons that show that it's at least small enough to be pretty portable as long as you have a bag of some sort with you. This will still sell well especially if all the new titles shift from 3DS to Switch.

Has Nintendo ever denied that the Switch is the WiiU successor?

> I'm confused by this. They took the Switch and removed everything that made it uniquely successful to make the Switch Lite.

It's going to be a lightweight, inexpensive handheld for kids to play Pokémon.

If I didn't already have a Switch I'd be getting one for that and a few other things. Pokemon sells handheld consoles like no other which is why so many DS hardware releases came alongside a new Pokemon generation.

Though I ended up moving from an old 3DS to the new XL version for the bigger screen after picking up Fire Emblem.

Have you seen the doorstop 2ds? Same logic by Nintendo and it sold well I believe.

So the Switch cannot... switch anymore?

Not criticizing this system but that got really nonsensical with the naming pretty fast.

That's def not an issue. Who cares, really?

Almost as crazy as naming the third generation of their gaming console “One”?

Aw, I wish this had come out a launch. I haven't ever connected my switch to a TV. I guess I can sell mine and buy one of these. I wonder how they'll handle the motion controls and gestures that you can't do in handheld mode. I remember in Mario Odyssey in particular there being a couple of moons you could only get by detaching the joycons to do certain motions (the one I remember is that you could make the frog jump higher by using the joycons than by any other method).

You can still pair joycons with the unit, just can't plug it into a dock.

You can pair joycons with the unit, but they got rid of the kickstand? I guess you can lay the unit on its back, but that seems like an oversight...

Battery life is the number one reason I haven't gotten a regular Switch. But this doesn't allow for connecting to a TV at all...

I want a Switch that is juuuuust right :/

Perhaps they'll fix the firmware of the regular Switch and upgrade the battery at the same time?

I'm in your boat. Give me a download only small form factor Switch for use with a TV only. It'll save me countless discussions with the minions.

Since they're making a portable-only model, it would make sense to have a stationary-only model as well.

We'll see!

What's wrong with the firmware? I still haven't played a switch but I only hear good things.

Apparently there's another 'premium' switch console on the way, but it's supposed to come quite a bit later than than the Lite. Maybe it'll cover what you need.

It's broken on the launch switch from the perspective of Nintendo in that it is trivially hacked with a hardware exploit. But it's not broken in any user facing way. They'll likely fix this in the Switch Lite and any other revision going forward.

This has been fixed since forever. Reports of fixed Switches started coming in mid-2018, and around late 2018 it was generally understood it would be very unlikely to get one new and sealed and unpatched unless you were extremely lucky to find older unsold stock. I assume it's impossible now unless you go to second-hand markets.

Sounds like a switch to buy! My ROMS are ready.

Best answer to battery life is an external battery pack and a usb C cable. Doesn’t take a big pack to get 12+ hours of play.

Ehh I've never had it die on me. It lasts like 5 hours (which is LONG for a mobile session on the switch, RIP your fingers and neck) and charges faster than my phone. I'm never somewhere for 4 straight hours without a random outlet. Yeah, you gotta carry your charger now, but it's not like the switch fits in your pocket either. Takes no noticeable weight in the backpack.

Well, it lasts 2.5 - 3 hours with Breath of the Wild. But yeah, it does depend.

5 hours would be enough, I agree.

This doesn't compete with the 3DS, according to Nintendo, in the same way the Macbook doesn't compete with the Air.

* 3DS XL MSRP: $199

* Switch Lite MSRP: $199

Except for the 3DS' deep bench of games how exactly don't they compete.

Of course they compete. Nintendo just said releasing the Switch Lite does not mean they will end support for the 3DS, "as long as there is demand". Which is smart probably, the 3DS is really popular and sells well. If it continues to sell (maybe because of the game library or the lower price of the 2DS?) why stop it without reason?

The 3DS family is in some equivalent of maintenance mode. You can still buy them, but nobody is making new games anymore.

They will probably lower the price of the 3DS after at the same time.

They also don't target the same population.

3DS targets small kids, it's surdy, and have low graphic capabilities. You put it in their bag back, for a long car ride, etc.

The Switch is a family console. The adults play it. We have diablo on it. But it got only a 3h lasting battery and it's more likely to break.

Yep, I let my 4 year old play a 2DS, the Switch is too cherished to let them run around with, kids get mad and throw things.

Nintendo also said the DS didn't compete with the GBA and the Game Boy line would remain a third pillar.

The GBA was abandoned the day the DS launched. 3DS game releases have also almost entirely died with the Switch's success.

> The GBA was abandoned the day the DS launched.

Well, I think the GBA wasn't abandoned until the day it became clear that the DS was a mega-hit. They hedged their bets up until then.

It's getting harder and harder to find the 3DS XL. The $120 2DS XL has taken over as the flagship device for the 3DS family.

I just bought a brand new New 3DS XL (Pikachu edition) off Amazon for $213 last week

I didn't say impossible to find. But they've been slowly disappearing from physical retailers in northeast Georgia for the past year.

The New 3DS XL is no longer manufactured from what I can tell.

The 2DS XL is $150. The 2DS is $79.

I suspect those remaining 2DS models may also be discontinued after/for the upcoming holiday season.

There's a strong market for the door stop 2ds. Kid can throw it across the room and you will be worrying about the drywall. I bet you can use it to chuck a tire and it will be fine.

For sure, and I think this one will be the last to go.

Alternate name, the "Nintendo Switch ^W" since it can't Switch any more (handheld only, can't dock with TV).

There's probably a term for the phenomenon of retaining a name past the point it actually applies. Vestigial product naming?

You can see this phenomenon in human family names too. Not too many folks named Baker are actually bakers anymore. Something about proper nouns makes them easy to drift away from their etymology I guess.

This reminds me of a joke a friend of mine made, saying that in a few decades 'Sysadmin' would be a valid last name.

This looks a perfect 2nd Switch in the family.

Especially if it can be used just as a controller, that would be perfect. Splits creen gaming on screens that are actually split.

> the built-in controls and their lack of detachable controllers, HD rumble, and IR sensors creates some small compatibility issues.

No HD rumble ... does that mean no rumble at all?

Is there any use for IR when the controller is connected? Seems to me like you don't lose out, in this case [1]

I'm guessing it still has a USB-C at the bottom, so why not let it do video-out from a dock? Are there any savings in gutting that feature?

[1] All examples here, have the joycon detached https://kotaku.com/the-switch-joy-con-s-infrared-sensor-is-c...

I assume the lack of video out is a deliberate crippling to differentiate the offerings and their purposes

Agreed. I also assume it will be modded back in within days of people getting their hands on these.

I will be surprised if the signals are even physically routed to the USB port, no reason to do that and then disable it in software unless removing the feature was a last minute decision.

I'm hoping for this, but it could be USB 2.0 over the Type C connector, which is unfortunately a thing.

When the Switch was announced I thought it was trying to be too many things and wouldn't be able to do any of them well. I was right. However, what I underestimated is the Switch's ability to do each of those things _well enough_. My PS4 is a better console. My GBA was a better handheld. The Wii was a better party system. But the Switch is pretty good at all of those things, and since the "better" systems could only do one thing - the Switch has turned out to be pretty awesome!

If you're considering one, definitely think about a buying a second used dock, being able to pop it in a TV in another room with ease is pretty neat.

My biggest complaint is that in hand held mode I can only do turn-based games because otherwise it hurts my hands. (The joy cons cramp my thumbs.)

It's also be okay with the opposite, a non-portable switch that act as a living room console, without the need to include a display, etc to make it even cheaper.

A pretty logical iteration on the switch. I'm surprised its not a little smaller though, I'd like to compare it its dimensions to the vanilla switch.

Looks like it's a touch smaller, maybe to make it more portable?

Basically what I want. Sweet.

Finally. Something that removes the TV tax and I can give to the kids to play. I don't want something that takes over a TV, ever. So this is great. Seems like the Switch will be around for folks who want the TV stuff.

Maybe there are loads of people like me. Maybe a few. Sales will tell I guess.

I recently picked up a PlayStation Vita which I think has just the right form factor for portability when playing on the bus. The Vita is a 5 inch display, and this makes a 5.5 inch display Switch very tempting.

I don't see what value Nintendo is providing this generation of gaming. Access to exclusive IP?

Between my laptop and cellphone, I have unlimited gaming for nearly free.

It really makes me wonder what the point of consoles are, they are inferior computers but heavily marketed.

Nintendo first-party IP is a HUGE draw, and they're currently on a roll in terms of making games that are both innovative and good. It's hard to overstate how important that is.

The Switch is also huge for being the most successful example of letting people play "real" not-mobile games in a portable device. With pretty much any modern indie release, my choices are to buy it on my computer, where I can play on my TV or my monitor, or buy it on Switch, where I can play it at home but also on the subway, when traveling, etc. That's huge.

It also means local multiplayer with my friends is way easier than it's been before. My Switch case (which comfortably fits in my bag) has 4 controllers, and because the Switch itself is so portable, it's also easy to play games where my friends each bring their own Switches. The combination of the Switch's mass-market success, and (again) the fact that these are "full" console-sized releases instead of smaller "portable" releases, make it feel meaningfully better at this than e.g. the various Game Boys/DSes or PSP / PS Vita.

Yes, without their exclusive IP there would be very few switch sales. It's why I have one for sure, same with PS4.

It is nice to have dedicated hardware for certain activities. I could play games on my phone, but I actually don’t want to. Even if I can find decent games that aren’t trying in some way to milk me for all I’m worth, it’s just not as good an experience as pulling my Switch out of my bag or sitting down and picking up my PS4 controller.

It doesn’t hurt that Nintendo is also one of the better game developers on the planet.

I'll give you the laptop point but as for mobile, if you truly think that offers a comparable gaming experience you're not a gamer, and certainly not the type of gamer being marketed to here.

Nintendo holds some of the most valuable gaming IP in the world and their games sell consoles. It doesn't matter what crazy format they make, people will buy it if they make a smash and Mario game on it.

I unfortunately don't see them ever releasing Mario Cart 74 on steam or any other pc platform, it just goes against everything they believe in (gaming is a social and family activity). But Tbh, I probably wouldn't want them too either.

Part of the appeal of Nintendo are their unique control schemes that just don't translate very well to other systems.

Well there is Mario Kart Tour which is in beta for Android. Although it sounds like the controls are dumbed down somewhat and it will include microtransactions.

> It really makes me wonder what the point of consoles are, they are inferior computers but heavily marketed.

People have been saying this for decades but consoles seem to be doing better than ever.

Their IP is really good. No other platform offers so many games that I love to play with my GF and friends.

If you consider your cellphone to be a legitimate gaming platform, you are not the type of gamer who Nintendo is trying to sell this device to.

Also, it's mainly the social aspects of Nintendo games that get me to buy the consoles and games.

> they are inferior computers

Also: inexpensive. Price has always been one of their strongest features.

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