Comment by baybal2 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by baybal2 | Hacker News Reader

I think US companies are just now realising just how much of their business activity can fit into few lines of code.

The thing happened in China over last 5 years:

- Restaurants run ordering APIs for food delivery companies

- Restaurants run ordering APIs for online menu companies

- Laundries run restocking, and order ready notification APIs

- Logistic companies pretty much became a few layers deep API business with most companies having 0 user facing "frontend"

- Hotels - some will deny you booking if you don't checkin online. Some went even further, and check in you remotely

- Construction companies - now run with client facing construction site management software, and run joint CAD projects with clients

- All kind of odd job service aggregators now do what is called o2o: dog walkers, handymen, porters, cleaners etc

- Many business service companies simply went out of business because their entire businesses were turned into free apps. You can file your taxes with a free app that scans QR code or electronic invoices for example

- All kind of retail store interact with wholesale suppliers only through some EDI stockkeeping or a more advanced API

- And for commerce, things are all self explanatory: JD and Alibaba

You make it sound as if the Chinese are more imaginative than Americans. That's not the case. They just have more people. If I am sitting in NYC and need 10 programmers overnight for a boring IT project... no problem. But if I am sitting anywhere else in the US it's going to take more time. Not the case in China. Or India. The quantum of activity is directly proportional to how much labor you have access too especially in "unsexy" IT work.

And kids in the US rightly focus on the sexy stuff because when you compare just Apple to the entire Indian IT sector revenues are 3x more. Why would you want to go work on laundromat or construction company APIs when you have a shot at getting into Apple or Google.

I don't think China is more imaginative, but they are far more nimble. For instance, if a city is growing, they just plop down a ton of apartment buildings, throw in 8 new subway lines, connect a bullet train and they're done.

The US spends about that length of time discussing on whether or not to build a new tower in a historic neighborhood.

I don't know why this is the case, but I think it has something to do with a rapidly growing economy versus an already grown economy. If someone could explain to me why that's the case, I'm all ears.

My off-the-cuff guess: if a country is growing, the easiest way to make money is hop into a growing industry and building as fast as you can. If a country is grown, the easiest way to make money is to siphon it from somewhere else. So in developed economies you have stagnation and inefficiency because the elites are more interested in redistributing the wealth (to them), instead of creating new wealth.

The other big factor is the government can make unilateral decisions because they're not a democracy and their human rights are a joke. If they want to tear down your building to build a new one they'll buy you off or if you refuse that kick you out by force, historical value be damned.

The citizens in the US and their political power are the source of most of the inertia.

> If they want to tear down your building to build a new one they'll buy you off or if you refuse that kick you out by force, historical value be damned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain_in_the_United_S...

My old college is doing this to an old employer/business owner/friend. If anyone feels passionate about Eminent Domain being theft; check out their petition.

https://www.change.org/p/eminent-domain-is-theft-save-new-yo...

They don't always kick owners out by force. Search for "nail house". Sometimes they just go on about their development as though the holdouts are not there. Sometimes they cut the water and power in the middle of the night.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2014/apr/15/china...

> My off-the-cuff guess: if a country is growing, the easiest way to make money is hop into a growing industry and building as fast as you can. If a country is grown, the easiest way to make money is to siphon it from somewhere else.

You could replace "country" with "company" and describe why startups are continuing to disrupt existing industries.

This is typically framed as "Grow the Pie" vs "Split the Pie" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grow_the_Pie_(phrase)

> You make it sound as if the Chinese are more imaginative than Americans. That's not the case. They just have more people.

How to say this without an ad hominem?

> Why would you want to go work on laundromat or construction company APIs when you have a shot at getting into Apple or Google.

Why would one be even bothered by that? Apple or not, anybody more or less seasoned professional knows his price and capabilities. My experience in the West shows that MNCs and dotcoms are full of kids just wanting to be abused by their employer for: 1. nice record in the resume; 2. sense of "social status"; 3. getting that "artsy startup cred" approval mark.

If laundromat API pays 3/4 of Apple's wage for an equivalent duration of work, but is many, many times easier to get than a job at Apple, I think there is not question what gig to pick up.

That's a typical wishful thinking of a "creative class wannabe" who has tons of insecurity about his claim to entitlement coming with that "artsy high class person" label.

Chinese devs may be taking someones job in the West, but it has no dependence whatsoever on them being evaluated for their "creativity." This has much more to do about ones productivity, and track record of successfully shipped products.

On that record, the comparison is not in favour of their American counterparts: a typical twenty something "code drone" will very likely score more on that than a senior dev or tech manager in the West.

I am checking Linkedins of engineering SVPs in Google and Apple now, near all have just 3-4 shipped products. I know a 25 years old who now counts his 21st engineering project in his career.

Honestly that laundromat job sounds interesting assuming its bunch of IoT devices sync'ing data to the cloud (eg: CoF payments, push notifications when laundry is done, etc), retrofitting machines with SBC devices to identify when a cycle is done, triggering payments etc.

Are there any english language sources that cover trends in the tech ecosystem like this in China?

Only like one bit here and there. Most of "sputnik moment" styled youtube videos about China internetising everything are more or less representative of the state on the ground.

But more than that, that an everyday for an average migrant worker in a big city in China.

This is fascinating. Would love to read more about it.

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