Comment by jimbokun | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jimbokun | Hacker News Reader

Just came back recently from vacation in Italy, and was very sad to walk into an American supermarket again.

My gut reaction was "where is the food?" Just row after row of stuff in boxes, with a few fresh fruits and vegetables in one row and a small deli counter, and even there the meats and cheeses are far more processed and industrial scale.

In Italy there were multiple sections of meats and cheeses, fresh breads clearly delivered that morning, in season fruits and vegetables. (I noticed all of the vendors had lots of cherries and apricots, displayed far more prominently and in greater quantities than anything else. Of course it was because they were in season, so that was what all the Italians wanted to buy.)

Even a tiny little corner market had a section for fresh bread, and chunks of really good quality cheese for about €1.

I don't know if it's cultural difference or quality of Italian soil and climate or something else, but seemed like it was cheaper and more convenient to eat real food there than processed and packaged junk.

Where are you shopping? Most US supermarkets have lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, as well as a meat counter and often recently-thawed fish. ("Fresh" fish can't actually be distributed without days of delay unless you live very nearby to where it's caught.) There's also always fresh high-quality bread, though there may be some excessively processed carbs as well Deli's usually don't provide very healthy food -- it's all processed. When I was in Italy a few years ago, supermarkets were very similar to those in the US.

Having lived in several parts of the US, I can say tell you anecdotally:

When I lived in a very poor neighborhood, the local Walmart didn't even have a fresh fruits and vegetable section. Nothing. They had a canasta of apples and bananas near the register, that's it. And it wasn't a small wallmart either.

There was a nice neighborhood, about 10 miles away, that had a Walmart with a wonderful selection of fruits and veggies. Since I was poor, I would drive there.

I've done better financially and now live and go to nicer supermarkets. But I have noticed a direct relationship between the amount, quality, variety and freshness of fruits and veggies in rich vs poor neighborhoods.

Personally, I always chucked it down to overall profitability per user. For example, rich people supermarkets have many more low profit/even loss leaders, because the average bill is much higher.

From my understanding, profitability per product varies tremendously in supermarkets (from loss leaders to products where the vast majority of the sale price is profit)

In poor areas, the average bill is low, and losses from stealing/vandalism go way up (I actually found a human feces laying on the floor in the poor neighborhood market I went to)

I'm guessing perishables have way lower profitability vs canned/packaged goods.

America has such a huge divide between areas, it's like different worlds: people talk, dress, and act very differently.

My guess is this is better in places with less separation between rich and poor (like dense cities), since the supermarkets have to offer good stuff to the poor if they want to reach the rich.

It's the relative quantities and pricing and placement of the various kinds of foods.

There was a much larger selection and variety of fresh breads. The meats and cheeses in Italy heavily emphasize where and how they are produced, with official designations enforced by law. You can get those products imported in the US, but they cost a lot more, of course.

In general, the most common items in Italian supermarkets are what get labels like "artisinal" and "organic" and much higher prices than what you would pay in Italy.

And I still haven't seen a convenience store in the US with high quality fresh breads and cheese.

Maybe the simplest way to think about it, the average Italian supermarket is Whole Foods but much cheaper.

(And don't get me started on the pinnacle of civilization that is the Italian Bar! I need to write a blog article on that.)

I will say, now that I'm back in the U.S., I have been finding the fresh bread and fruits and vegetables, and where they are cheaper, that maybe I missed before because I was seeking it out.

I've definitely seen what you're describing, but not all of our supermarkets are like that. If you visit higher-end supermarkets (like HEB or Trader Joe), you'll see fresh breads baked in-store, gourmet cheeses, top quality meats, and fresh in-season fruits.

If you visit Walmart Supercenter grocery stores, you'll see mostly lower-end crap and frozen boxes.

The simple explanation is that each is catering to what their audience expects, and the prices they can afford.

Yeah, I would say the quality of food in even a discount Italian supermarket is more similar to the HEBs and Trader Joes.

This is the case in my comparison between Spain and the US. Spanish produce was definitely cheaper (in a larger city than I usually live in, to boot). There's also a slightly different setup though. Here in the US, sometimes a supermarket is the only place a person has in range (or tries to be). This means they carry EVERYTHING, and they want it to last on the shelf as long as possible. Meanwhile, I would go to a corner store for bread in Madrid, a block over to a produce store for fresh fruit and veg, and occasionally to the supermarket about 15 minutes walking to stock up on more pantry-stable goods and treats.

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