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Comment by mighty_bander | Hacker News Reader

Anyone who says unions are no longer necessary should go and work in an Amazon warehouse for a year. Until the workforce organizes, this is going to keep happening.

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It seems that the US union law favors so called enterprise bargaining or worksite-level bargaining. Companies and workplaces either unionize or not. That kind of system pits unions against companies. If the workplace unionizes, non-unionized companies get an advantage. Whoever fucks their workers hardest gets competitive advantage.

My experience of unions comes as an entrepreneur in countries with sectoral bargaining. Companies representing the whole sector negotiate against unions representing most or all workers in that sector. There may be company level deals also, but they are just a side show dealing with local issues. When the deal is made, everyone is at the same level of pain and gain. If company in retail business must allow their workers to pee, so does their competitor. You don't get competitive advantage if you fuck with your workers.

It's really just matter of arranging incentives.

This isn’t true. Plenty of construction, plumbing and electricians are unionized. They work on roads, big public or corporate projects and do just fine. The lower end, residential tend to be non-union. Many trades folk want to be in a union. You can also go hang your own shingle too.

I think that's a wonderful idea. Are you in Europe?

In Canada, we have some sectoral organization but I wouldn't expect it to complete.

The whole let's run workers like machines idea because they are poor and they have no bargaining power is very closely akin to slavery and yet is tolerated... and not thought of as completely immoral. I mean how the fuck do you get away with limiting the ability of people to use the restroom.

OK first the Restroom issue...Can we Please LET THIS GO!!! There is NO RULE saying that I have a limit or restrictions on Restroom use. I can use the Restroom as much/often as I need. I have Never peed in a bottle or trash can Nor have I seen anyone does that either!! I have never gotten written up or in trouble for using the restroom. Really this rumor needs to be put to rest!! Its tired and old.

The last time I checked Slaves do not have Freedom and I have freedom to come and go as I please, Slaves do not get paid and I Get Paid VERY Well and get pay raises. Slaves do not get benefits and I get FULL Benefits with all the bells and whistles. I am NOT A Slave. There are no shackles over here.

Rachel-Amazon FC Ambassador

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17243026/amazon-warehouse...

https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-employee-allegedly-fired-ove...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5004230/amazon-warehouse-worki...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/amazon-fired-7-pregnant-wareh...

https://amazonemancipatory.com/bathroom-breaks

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-workers-sha...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/01/amazon-fu...

https://brobible.com/culture/article/amazon-employee-suing-c...

Sure, sure, you have exhaustively-researched articles by professional investigative journalists, but where's the proof?

> Whoever fucks their workers hardest gets competitive advantage.

This is true, but companies that don’t fuck their employees also have a competitive advantage.

So it’s kind of not true. It really depends on the details which advantage is bigger.

That, or universal basic income. No need for unions if workers can simply say no to a job and live humbly instead. Amazon simply wouldn't find anyone willing to work for them until they improved.

Exactly. Capitalists who don't want collective bargaining probably shouldn't motivate people to see their strength in numbers.

I don't see any mystery in why employees would band together in situations like these. They'd be fools not to.

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