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Comment by zuckerborg | Hacker News Reader

Dude, this is Sebastian Marshall, one of the great strategists of our time. He specializes in winning and communicating the art of winning through his blog.

Now to the untrained eye, his posts may come across as the work of a delusional, narcissistic windbag, but if you look deeper, you'll find that with his hectic schedule it's amazing that he has time to write at all. Between fighting off Asian gangsters with high-powered kung fu kicks and hosting charity events for hospitals whose name he misremembers, he still finds the energy to offer priceless career guidance and moral support to patio11. Soak up his wisdom, so that you too may learn the entrepreneur strategies of the winning scientist.

As an aside, I would love to read more about his science. I've learned so much about strategy and entrepreneurship and winning from him, but not much yet about science. Please write about your science, Scientist Sebastian, so that I may seek to improve my own science, which has hitherto proven most unfruitful.

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Extremely disappointing to see so many upvotes on such a mean-spirited comment by an anonymous user who has contributed to HN a fraction of what Sebastian has, in terms of time and karma. I understand that some people might disagree with what Sebastian has to say, but there are constructive ways to do so. Sarcastic, anonymous, ad hominem attacks like these are probably fun to write, but they hasten the downfall of a wonderful community. So thanks for that.

PS - I've gotten to know Sebastian over the last few months and he's proven to be a genuinely good person who wants to learn how to be better and help others do the same. It's sad to see people lashing out at him for that.

In my culture, a refined critique is something to savored like wine. Careful skepticism is favored over blind boosterism as well.

I am going to guess that you were raised in a more typically middle-class American manner.

> but they hasten the downfall of a wonderful community. So thanks for that.

Melodrama. You should know better than that.

In my culture, a refined critique is something to savored like wine. Careful skepticism is favored over blind boosterism as well.

The comment I was replying to was neither a refined critique nor an example of careful skepticism. Whether you agree with Sebastian isn't the point at all; comments like the one that zuckerborg made do absolutely nothing to raise the level of discourse. Which is probably why the HN guidelines are clear on this point:

Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation.

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

PG has said elsewhere that one kind of bad comment he tries to keep a lid on is meanness. I don't see any way that zuckerborg's comment wouldn't qualify, as it was aimed at the author's character, rather than this particular essay or argument.

I am going to guess that you were raised in a more typically middle-class American manner.

Finally, thanks for this jab at my (obviously inferior) background. It's always nice when someone you've never met or spoken to feels the urge to make assumptions about your character and intellect from a few sentences you wrote on a forum.

Maybe mattmaroon was right about HN.

>comments like the one that zuckerborg made do absolutely nothing to raise the level of discourse

I disagree, I think he artfully illustrated why some people find blogs like Sebastian's so repugnant. In doing so, he even managed to run down a laundry list of reasons.

Wasn't poorly written, either. Would you share an example of how better to express what zuckerborg wrote?

>And thanks for the jab at my (obviously inferior) background.

Inferior? I grew up in poverty. I haven't really seen this kind of behavior outside of the American middle-class.

That is, the blind boosterism that is a plague here. Not to mention the rampant Me-Blogs that get posted and cheered here, absent substance.

I'm exercising a great deal of restraint, too.

Your intellect and character aren't at question here, it's your aesthetics. Stop looking for an excuse to feel indignant, you don't have one.

Don't paste me the guidelines, you just got done decrying the "Fall of HN", something that PG has chastised people for in the past. Don't add hypocrisy to your involvement in this discussion.

>Maybe mattmaroon was right about HN.

Cut the meta bullshit and sideways complaining.

Do you care so little for sobriety and humility that you would defend a "blog" like Sebastian's?

Ad Hominem Day isn't until next Tuesday.

>Ad Hominem

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

That was one of the worst comments I've read on HN in a while -- like a week or so. Seems like the time periods between exceptional dirtbags posting keeps getting smaller and smaller.

I think there is a difference between somebody that is easy to criticize and somebody that should be criticized. Sebastian is easy to criticize, mainly because he has such an open and friendly style. I like what's he doing with his blog.

When you're 15 and still in school it's common for insecure people to pick on somebody who stands out -- for any reason. Hopefully this was just some pimply-faced teenager in his mom's basement and not part of a general trend towards easy sarcasm.

And yeah, all the upvotes bother me more than the one jerk.

I think this comment has explained a lot about why people don't mind Sebastian here.

It seems that his friendliness covers for the tasteless egotism and arrogance. (The tastelessness of his blog alone is something I could make a 5-page long The Oatmeal'ish infographic about.)

I guess people here are extremely charitable as long as you don't express any negativity or criticism.

This board is supposed to have started as a place for hackers to hang out and talk about startup and hacker stuff. Most times, startups don't pan out. The odds are against you, the culture is against you, the only thing you have going for yourself is your ability to dig in and keep going.

Why would we express negativity and criticism for what somebody else considers valuable enough to do? Caution, honest critique, our own experiences, encouragement? Sure. Even tell folks they are smoking crack if that's what you think -- just do it like you would to a friend, not like you're hiding behind a wall of internet anonymity and trying to see how snarky you can be.

I'm the first person to tell people I think what they are saying is messed up. Hopefully I do so by asking them to explain themselves, rather than trying to beat them down with words and then climb on top as the victor. That kind of behavior is petty juvenile bullshit and lowers the conversation and board quality overall.

We're supposed to be helping each other, not proving who can make the cutest joke, snarkiest comment, or most glib putdown.

If the conversation becomes whether somebody is "worthy" enough to do X, you can count me out.

I'm sorry, what has Sebastian hacked on lately?

Lets look at a list of recent subjects on his blog.

Letter: Gaming and Reading

Letter: New Year’s Resolutions

The Neurosis of Long Term Habit Change

Comment: “The Last Blow to Human Hegemony”

A Transformative Power of Perspective

On Improving When Your Friends Aren’t

Unorthodox Strategies for Winning

Comment: “There is more to it than just the choice of whether to ship. There is also whether you even get something ship-worthy made.”

Some Side Upgrades

Studying Patience

Twitter? Yes indeed

I don't think he's the kind of person we need to be worried about giving moral support.

We need to be encouraging productive people into doing more for themselves and their careers, not cheering on charlatans.

Sebastian has given me personal advice that I consider incredibly valuable, and has changed my plans in the coming year.

Just saying.

Also, I take small issue with this:

> We need to be encouraging productive people into doing more for themselves and their careers,

That's pretty much what Sebastian does, isn't it?

>Sebastian has given me personal advice that I consider incredibly valuable, and has changed my plans in the coming year.

Was this advice on his blog or was it offline? If was offline in person, it doesn't really have anything to do with the utility of the blog. Hopefully, nobody is attacking Sebastian the person. Seeing as how the vocal defenders of the site know the person, maybe it's worth considering that Sebastian the person colors your view of sebastianmarshall.com. Possibly it's why you don't find it as obnoxious as so many others do.

Hopefully, nobody is attacking Sebastian the person...

cheering on charlatans...

Kind of hard to call somebody a charlatan without attacking them as a person, isn't it?

That was a pretty clipped quotation. I didn't even see it as specific to Sebastian in my quick reading of alnayyir's comment. I suspect taking the entire sentence wouldn't have served your rhetorical purposes so well.

Setting aside that issue, I suppose the answer depends on your values. Obviously there's a connection. If you do terrible things online, you're probably not a great person. That said, I for one see it entirely possible for a blogger to be full of BS and false bravado when online, but a perfectly fine person in the real world. In fact, I don't think it's uncommon.

Nobody is trying to win an argument here.

My take on this thread is that it is a personal attack on Sebastian. That's why I commented.

I don't know Sebastian (although we're "friends" on FB), I don't read his blog as much as some, and I have no interest in either defending him or protecting him. He's a big guy and can take care of himself.

But if you don't like a post -- don't upvote it. If you have a problem with a certain type of blog article -- complain about it in general terms. If you think there are charlatans among us eager to prey on the innocent, then say so -- but do it in a neutral manner. This isn't rocket science. This is just the basic skills of how to get along with other people.

You can tell a thread is off the rails the minute somebody starts talking personally about somebody else. It's a sign that they have a weak argument and are more interested in scoring points than making a critique. There's no happy ending: if folks come on and say the person is nice, others will accuse them of having a clique mentality. If others come on and agree, it's just some random internet mob lashing out for whatever reason -- not an attractive thing to watch.

So let's not do that, okay? If you're saying that all these comments and upvotes were actually people just objecting to the blog and not the person, then I believe you. I personally didn't take it that way at all, but I believe what you are saying to be true. All I ask is that you take a look at this from another viewpoint.

And I'm done here. I have no intention of kicking this can down the road any more. If you don't get it by now, you're not going to get it.

>My take on this thread is that it is a personal attack on Sebastian. That's why I commented.

Wrongo, as far as I'm concerned.

Want to know why I'm in this thread?

>HN would be a better place without a constant stream of victory spam.

Personally motivated and predicated upon a total misunderstanding of what I'm striving for. Not the first time I've had this problem with you.

I emailed him, thanking him for one of his blog posts though I found insightful.

Sebastian's blog strikes me as intensely arrogant, self-centered and tasteless. Like others, I'm sure, I have my doubts about the truthfulness of some passages from his blog such as the following:

"I got into a shouting match protecting some McDonald’s employees from a mob boss in Hong Kong. A riot cop came to break it up, I was almost in a fight with three mafia guys.

I had two guys try to mug me the other day in a dangerous area. Bad mistake, doubled one of them over with a kick the stomach and shouted at the other one, “YOU WANT TO DIE? BACK DOWN, STAY BACK.” He did, he let me walk away while his criminal buddy was doubled over."

Even if every word of the above were true, which I doubt, it wouldn't impress me. It just makes me think the guy is stupid. The post bragging that he'll be making 250k/month in 10 years was similarly in-your-face, yet uninspiring. Ditto for the comparison of "high born" and "low born" people. Other posts push credulity in similar ways and give me the sense he's a runaway narcissist.

Honestly, I don't have a problem reading really odd stuff if there's enough value to take from it. One example would be Steve Pavlina's blog. I have little to no interest in new age philosophy and some of his posts come across as downright nutty. But they're thought provoking, though. Many of the earlier posts on online business and a wider set of personal development topics were solid gold. I rarely feel like it's wasted time to read that blog, even when I disagree with it.

Unfortunately, I can't say the same about Sebastian's blog or so-called "get victory" newsletter. Thus far, I haven't found a single article that's genuinely helped me (a high bar, I know). There isn't nearly enough substance to offset the obnoxious tone. Until he actually is a VC with all kinds of internet properties, making 250k/month, a lot of people just won't be interested in reading about his opinions, goals or tall tales.

As I said, I don't know the guy. He could very well be a great guy to hang around with, especially with his interest in self-improvement. Maybe if I did know him offline as you do, I'd have a greater appreciation for his blog. This comment isn't meant as a personal attack. It's a rationale for why I agree with zuckerborg's comment and why HN would be a better place without a constant stream of victory spam.

>HN would be a better place without a constant stream of victory spam.

A beer on me if we're ever in the same city. I was starting to think I was alone in fighting the good fight.

I can understand why you'd be skeptical - most people are unwilling to put themselves in harm's way to break up a fight, protect people around them, or explore the slums of a city to understand more about the development of humanity.

I do do those things. I don't know exactly what to tell you if you want to doubt that - there was a guy yelling and spitting on the floor of the Tsim Sha Tsui McDonald's in the late night/early morning, yelling at the staff. He was with two of his buddies. I told him to knock it off. Shouting match ensued.

I've had three attempts to mug me in my life - once in Shanghai, once in London, and once in Saigon.

You can dislike me - that's your call - but I dunno man, I don't say things that are untrue.

> Thus far, I haven't found a single article that's genuinely helped me

That's too bad. You've obviously been around my site a fair bit, and I do try to make it of value to a visitor. I cover lots of stuff that a lot of people have found useful - what are you trying to do exactly? What have you tried that I've written/advocated on that didn't work for you?

>What have you tried that I've written/advocated on that didn't work for you?

You're missing the point. You're handing out advice with no demonstrable expertise on...anything.

You don't discuss anything that requires talent, intellect, experience, or domain knowledge. You write about things you pull out of your head or other content you Tom Sawyered other people into collating for you.

Speaking of "content", that neuroplasticity and habits post is a travesty.

Your whole blog is so thoroughly preoccupied with your person that I can only think you are suffocating on the fumes of your own alternate reality.

In brief you are:

1. Without demonstrated accomplishment

2. Arrogant

3. The only thing you're superlative in is narcissism

4. Giving out advice to deluded hopefuls who want to have a site about nothing and to be paid for zero productivity and not work a day more of their lives than they have to.

People with work to do, work they love, they don't need people like you.

Bonus time! Since people don't seem to get it yet, I've taken the liberty of making an annotated version of the front page of his 'blog'.

http://i.imgur.com/ET2hf.png

With that, I'm done chasing this matter. I am exhausted with battling this banality.

Exeunt.

> 4. Giving out advice to deluded hopefuls who want to have a site about nothing and to be paid for zero productivity and not work a day more of their lives than they have to.

Chris -

1. You've replied seventeen times to this thread, pretty much all negative and nasty. 17.

2. Now you're taking screenshots and drawing on them in a thread no one's looking any more. We're getting into borderline stalking territory.

3. You've apparently never read beyond a surface reading of my site, where I've always advocated really hard work and doing more through doing right by and serving other people.

4. I've achieved pretty high levels of professional success, mastery in hobbies/skills/disciplines, and other things. But hell, even if I hadn't, it still wouldn't put you in a position to

5. Please stop your borderline stalking. You're at 17 replies already here, and it's honestly getting to the point where it's scaring me. There's lots of important things in the world you could be working on, building, fixing, or improving - there's no possible way this is worth the entire hours of your life you've spent here.

In brief, and only because vicious attacks on writers I enjoy just rubs me wrong:

1. It is not Sebastian's duty to demonstrate his accomplishments to you.

2. Arrogant? If you hate yourself so much that you can't stand a person with ambition and grand intentions, that's your problem. I'll take Sebastian's "arrogance" over your condescending "objective criticism" any day.

3. On what basis can you say this?

4. I spend my entire LIFE working to build things to help fix the problems in the world. I enjoy reading Sebastian because he writes about doing the same. And from what I can tell, he is one of the hardest working and honestly self-critical writers on the internet.

> People with work to do, work they love, they don't need people like you.

Sebastian hasn't asked anything of you. He's a valued contributor around here for a great number of reasons, and has found a writing style that resonates with many around here. If it doesn't resonate with you, that's fine. We're all in a different place. But there's no cause or excuse for this type of attack. As Sebastian points out below, 17 posts? That is a bit scary. Remember, beneath the posts and karma there's real human beings around here, some of the smartest on the internet, and they all deserve a measure respect, regardless of your thoughts on the value they provide the world for free. What exactly are you trying to prove, and to whom?

Sorry it's taken so long to notice your comment. It definitely deserves a reply.

Here's what I'm really interested in:

Languages: I've put a great deal of time into Japanese and Mandarin, some into Taiwanese, Cantonese and Spanish and a little into several others. I love language learning and I'm pretty confident in getting started with new ones, but I'm still not that confident in bridging the gap from very advanced to near-native. I don't come to HN looking for help with this.

Drawing: I've recently gotten really into sketching, but HN isn't for that either.

Programming: I've done bits on an off for 10 years, but have no real experience beyond simple scripts, a FF plugin and a couple of simple flash games. Resources for various programming things come up on here on occasion and I love them.

Business: I was partner in a small business in Taiwan for a few years. This whet my entrepreneurial appetite, and I'm very interested in stories about how founders or managers of successful business got started, overcame obstacles, etc. Mixergy is one of my favorite sites that comes up on here. Maybe this is something you could share (if you haven't already). I seem to remember you mentioning in passing that you ran a company. Personal stories (rather than opinions about things not so related to tech or business) would be interesting to me.

Fitness: Have you ever run a sub 3 hour marathon? Maybe gotten your bench over 350? Limbered to the point where you can do the splits? Trained to where you can dunk a basketball (if you're under 185cm). All those kind of things would be interesting to read about.

Resources: Found a great FF (or Chrome) plugin? A useful reference for something programming related? Share them!

News: First and foremost, I come to this site for news. It probably wouldn't fit well with your blog, but if there's something you've created or you want to share your progress on something, that might be interesting. Even something like the 250k/month goal would be interesting and possibly educational if you've made progress towards it that surpasses the norm.

Hope the feedback is constructive, even if it's not the most pleasant thing to see!

You can add he submitted a post for me to HN that got 20k views to that list. I know you are being sarcastic, but I can confirm that he at least done that one thing, and for me that is amazing.

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