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Comment by doh | Hacker News Reader

That depends on how you define "manager". In our company, managers serve empowering function and don't have firing powers. They take full responsibility for growth and progress of the people they manage. They can report issues with people they manage to certain parts of the org, but can't solemnly pull the trigger.

We are also significantly smaller than Square though, with 40+ employees. We want to keep it this way up until sustainable, then figure out something else. We don't want managers to ever be able to single handedly fire people.

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> That depends on how you define "manager". In our company, managers serve empowering function and don't have firing powers. They take full responsibility for growth and progress of the people they manage.

Who does have firing powers, and how does one get there without being in the management track?

Currently only the C executives, mostly because we are so small and this is a very solemnly an issues. We have not let go a person for more than 2.5 years. As we grow more, we will change it too, but will try to keep it very friction heavy so our employees are not worried about someone frivolously firing them.

I worked as a dev manager at a large org and definitely didn't have firing powers. It involved a process with HR, and following a pretty riggid pip-ing process, paperwork, etc, so that there's accountability at all levels.

I'd be curious the size and type of company the OP is talking about where managers get that much power?

The managers werent the ones who flipped the switch with HR to start the firing process and provided the evidence to make the decision?

Not always. Managers sometimes like the people on their teams, and don't want to fire them. That's when someone else notices the team needs shaking up, or overhears conversations that are unsettling, etc. Also step-over meetings, too: that's when a manager's manager (or higher-up) will have a meeting with someone the manager is managing....good orgs have all these types of playbooks.

"Managers sometimes like the people on their teams, and don't want to fire them."

I remember early in my career meeting a very senior and experienced manager from another company on the same project who said he intentionally didn't become too friendly with people in case he had to sack them - which I thought must be a miserable way to live. NB I have sacked people for poor performance and laid off people I considered friends (and who are still friends).

I haven't heard of a modern tech company of any size that allows a team lead / direct manager of ICs to unilaterally fire a report without some decent amount of process and involvement from others.

I didn't mean to imply that managers can single-handedly fire whomever they want. But empirically good managers can get bad engineers fired, but good engineers can't get bad managers fired nearly as easily (if at all).

Just wait until you get to 10000 employees. You must delegate at that point. A manager might not fire someone by themselves, but since the involvement of HR is generally limited to executing the decision it might as well be.

I'm aware that we will not be able to retain this policy forever, however not going to change it before it has to.

Also, I'm glad that you believe that we will get to 10k employees. Currently beyond the scope of my own ambition.

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