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Comment by bradford | Hacker News Reader

Sometimes, it's really hard to find information that confirms a negative. (i.e., confirming that a scenario is not supported)

A while ago I was trying to plan a trip to Death Valley and I was exploring backcountry camping as a possibility. Backcountry camping is possible in Death Valley, but looking at this chart I can see that no one really does it, and it might be best to reconsider my plans.

This is valuable information for individuals planning an overnight stay at any park.

(Of course, it's possible that the data is missing, but I think my point is still valid)

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Backcountry camping in Death Valley is magical if you know what you're doing. It's also a place that will kill you if you don't know what you're doing and you get lost, or panic when something goes wrong. Death Valley is also a park that's relatively easy to explore by vehicle and through day hikes, so it will always have a lower ratio of backcountry camping to other forms of camping than most other parks.

Beta is nice but if you're confident in your ability to know when to turn back, it's ok to go find out for yourself. Some of my favorite hiking trips are in the dead of winter where I don't see another soul and the snow has clearly been untouched for weeks/months. I spent more time camping last winter than I did this summer.

I also doubt those kinds of outlier trips are reported in this data set. I'm not sure how they assembled this data specifically, but most national parks around me have self issue permits or trailhead ledgers. But they're often either missing or water damaged during the winter months. If there's no infrastructure to record the outlier data, then it doesn't get recorded at all.

Which national parks have self issue permits?

I don't know the national parks specifically, but just about every trailhead in the mid WA cascades, with the exception of a few that you need additional permits for (wonderland, enchantments, etc)

Most of those are on national forest land, which is different than a national park. The wonderland is at Mt. Rainier National park, which requires permits for all overnight backpacking. Same with Olympic and North Cascades National Park.

i don't think death valley requires permits for backcountry camping, so i suspect it doesn't show up in the dataset.

btw, death valley has a lot of semi-backcountry options: places that require high clearance vehicles to access via road, may or may not have vault toilets, may or may not have water, and are generally pretty light in terms of utilization. they might be worth considering.

Currently, backcountry permits are voluntary.

https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/backcamp.htm

I just got back from a trip to Death Valley. While it was extremely hot (116F), it was very beautiful. The mountains are where you probably want to go for hiking and camping. The valley floor is where all the heat gets trapped in. I highly recommend Death Valley. Many people stay tuned for the short-lived super blooms of wildflowers that pop up from time to time in spring after perfect conditions allow. It is supposed to be quite spectacular.

The NPS doesn't have the data as you can camp (fairly) freely without permits.

I've done it a few times before (all in the fall through spring). The major issue is in finding flat, suitable ground for a tent; the most interesting areas of the park are often the most rocky, are lacking for flat surfaces, or you would find yourself in a sandy wash/arroyo. Or, you'd be out in the open subject to horrible winds that would keep you up all night from the noise.

One of the most common/easiest places to do it is on a hike to Telescope Peak, hike in a few miles, camp the night, then hike to the top and back out the following day.

Death Valley was a National Monument until 1994. The backcountry camping requirements are more typical of BLM wilderness areas than most national parks. I'm not a lawyer but it looks to me like you can boondock a vehicle on the dirt roads. https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/backcamp.htm

Unlike most other National Parks and Wildernesses, Death Valley does not encourage backcountry hiking...all the trails are short out and back. There isn't an extensive through trail system. https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/hiking.htm

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