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Comment by ChuckNorris89 | Hacker News Reader

Apple doesn't want their customers to get f'd over you say?

You might want to check out Luis Rosmann's videos, a famous Apple repair geek who fixes for cheap the products Apple themselves misdiagnose[1] in order to rip off their customers[2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7RXJP4mxCc // teenager's MacBook's display is not working correctly so Geniuses tell him he needs a new motherboard replacement while Luis discovers in 2 seconds that the lid-close sensor cable is broken so he replaces it for $8

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_SZ4tfLns // customer's MacBook's display is not working correctly so Geniuses tell him he needs a new motherboard and display replacement while Luis discovers in two minutes that the display connector has a bent pin and fixes it for free

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It might be that Apple is not able to apply the same attention to detail that Luis applies to every case.

Luis complains that he can't find competent board level repair technicians to scale his business. The real problem is that it's a difficult expensive skill. Luis can't scale it, Apple can't scale it at a reasonable price either.

Human attention is expensive, that's the reason software is eating the world. Part of that means paying less attention to individual user's products when it requires less human attention to just replace parts in mass.

My 2 cents.

I love watching Louis diagnose and fix laptops. He can make good money charging $300 to fix a motherboard in an hour or two because he has done it for years but I can imagine even a very smart technician it takes 2-3x time starting out and I doubt he pays much more than $25-30hr, though maybe the business would be more viable if not in NYC thats borderline living wage here.

> Apple can't scale it at a reasonable price either.

That may well be but they charge premium prices and position themselves as providing a premium service. They're the only business that calls their repair staff "geniuses", so I don't think it's too much to expect a "genius" to not go for the quick fix. People expect more from Apple because of how they present themselves.

In both these cases had the actual hardware ever made it to the Apple repair depot (which has more expertise than the average Apple Genius and is not located on the back of the store, contrary to what Luis may think) then they undoubtedly would have come to the same conclusion that Luis did about the ease of the repair, and would have charged accordingly.

What Luis heard from the store was a preliminary estimate, not a final bill.

While Luis is certainly a master-level expert on repairs (of course he could easily find cherry picked examples that could fool a Genius), in my opinion he is a classic example of an Apple hater and comes to this with a strong bias and a highly self interested agenda which includes 1) promoting his repair business and 2) creating juicy “gotcha” clickbait for his YouTube channel.

Which is a fantastic chance btw... despite what I’ve said it’s a great channel for learning a lot about hardware repairs.

Both videos mention suggestions to buy a new computer because repair cost is close to the price of a new one. In such case, the computer would never reach a repair depot.

As to Rossmann being a hater, I too have seen so many stories of Apple denying warranty for made up reasons (liquid damage, etc) that it is very difficult to believe that Apple is acting in good faith when it comes to repairs.

Apple's warranty and their water damage sensors are absolutely useless. The water damage sensors go off if you are in a humid area and along with it goes your warranty. I had problems with my keyboard macbook 2015. Took my laptop to the apple store and was basically told that warranty is void due to water damage. I don't understand know how this is legal?

I suppose humidity can also cause water damage. Humidity is basically caused by high levels of water moisture in the air. Which water moisture, as we know, moves in and out of liquid form as it condenses and evaporates, sometimes unnoticed in places we can’t see.

Seems unfortunate that some environments are harmful to electronics, but what would you have them do, guarantee the product in absolutely any conditions?

If they're legally selling devices in these areas, then yes. I don't see why environment absolves them of any and all responsibility.

I think you should try doing what they do, but add on this warranty that fills the “responsibility” of covering all possible damage from all possible environments that can be found anywhere around the area... “the area” being the whole Earth, of course, since these devices are intended for mobile use globally.

Might as well step up and not shirk your obvious responsibility for covering impact events as well, since those occur fairly often in many everyday situations. Let us know how that works out for you.

I don't think it's reasonable to support hardware that was taken up Everest or on some Antarctic expedition - actual, extreme circumstances.

I think it's entirely reasonable to support hardware sold in 100% humidity central Florida where Apple is licensed to do business (covered under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.)

this is exactly the point, most of the times people just assume harshest weather condition and think we are asking them to support that the moment this argument pops up.

Like I said, if they're actively selling a device in a certain place, they should be on the hook for it if the device hasn't been designed to cope with the environment of that place. Not sure what's gained by the second most profitable company in the entire world being able to offload that kind of risk onto consumers.

Frankly I wouldn’t put it past Rossmann to make up that anecdote about the Genius suggesting they buy a new computer. That’s just not how Apple works in my experience.

As to your second point, I’ve had only positive experiences with them with repairs both in and out of warranty. However some of that may be because I always buy at an Apple store, rather than at third parties, because doing so gives their systems more visibility into the detailed history of the specific item I buy, and thus they have more leeway and discretion to solve problems in very nice ways. It’s likely that many horror stories you’ve heard are dramatized after the fact by people who went for a sketchy discount purchase and want someone to blame. People do lie, and liquid damage is a real thing.

> make up that anecdote

Apple got caught on hidden camera. Multiple times.

You can find plenty of these kinds of videos, but I think Rossman was referring to this one, featuring the man himself:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_XneTBhRPYk

Missed the edit window for a typo but fantastic channel, that was supposed to say, not chance. And, I would think, also a good business for him at this point.

Nothing in your sources indicate there's intention in Apple driving folks towards these repairs. Geniuses don't work on commission, they have zero incentive to tell people to fix things they dont need to. I think this is a Hanlon's razor situation where you're assuming Apple is malicious when really it's just lack of knowledge on behalf of some Geniuses.

No one is claiming that apple is training their geniuses to intentionally guide people to more expensive repairs. In fact they are accusing apple of a lack of adequate training, These guys just don't know that what they're saying is untrue. Apple's failed to train their technicians to repair anything. all they can do is replace.

The commenter I responded to literally said that the genius intentionally told the customer the wrong thing. They have since edited that part out. So yes, folks right here are claiming intent where there is none.

You can’t claim there was no intent either right? Whether there was or was not intent is unknown.

“It may or may not have been intentional, but I was guided to buy a more expensive option”.

Louis Rossman isn't really the best source for unbiased information: https://old.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossman...

They're claiming the factory wasn't authorized to manufacture the batteries, but that's only because they had an Apple logo on them, so he had them get rid of the logo, which is the only thing that requires them to be "authorized" for. How is that even controversial? It seems to be the opposite of counterfeiting -- making it so the non-Apple battery doesn't have the Apple logo.

Rossman tried to claim that Apple seized the batteries (they didn't: the DHS did, independently of Apple) and claimed they were counterfeit when they weren't. Except he was actually smuggling illicit batteries into the country (willfully obfuscating this fact by hiding the Apple logo) and then making videos claiming that they were completely genuine and Apple didn't want him to have these because Apple personally hated him.

They're only illicit if they have the Apple logo on them when they shouldn't, which is the whole point of taking it off.

…but then you can't claim that there were genuine, as Rossman did in his videos.

Do you have a link to the video? There is a difference between saying things like "manufactured to Apple spec" and claiming they were actually manufactured by Apple.

https://youtu.be/AVL65qwBGnw?t=43

That's kind of ambiguous. He could mean original spec, as opposed to some junk using completely different components which is merely electrically compatible.

The fact that he's then comparing "original" with "counterfeit" goes against that a little, but it feels more like confusion than malice, or using the same word in two different contexts. Saying these are original-spec components without Apple logos and not counterfeit might be true even if the reason they're not counterfeit is that they don't have Apple logos rather than because they followed the spec.

There's nothing ambiguous about it at all, they are indisputably not original components even if they adhere perfectly to the original spec.

That's what I mean by using the same word in different contexts. Think AuthenticAMD rather than GenuineIntel. You have someone manufacturing components they're not claiming are Apple components, then they're original -- not original Apple, original That Other Company.

First off, Louis Rossman has made his fair share of stupid mistakes on camera and I am sure he's had his own work returned to his shop in the past. It is important to note is that he is cherry picking the worst cases of incompetence from across the country since he has many fans willing to send their Macs to him. Apple's Genius Bar services over 18 million users per year. There are bound to be some stinkers. https://www.cultofmac.com/185762/did-you-know-apples-genius-...

If Luis is putting in fake batteries and calling them real he is a scammer to. That's the topic here.

As to this claim that these examples are apple screwing over their customers - perhaps the frontline folks at a store can fix a certain set of issues, and if the machine looks dead (ie, no screen) they advise customer of potential cost and send it to a group better able to fix things?

I'm not that impressed with support I've gotten at other places selling laptops (walmart / target) but maybe apple really is the worst here.

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