Ask HN: Do coding bootcamps mostly teach JavaScript? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Do coding bootcamps mostly teach JavaScript?

16 pointscodegeek10 comments

I run a bootstrapped SAAS company and lately have been interviewing developers who are entry level. Getting quite a few bootcampers which I don't mind but almost none of them have any experience with a backend server side language like PHP, Python etc that are still widely used in real world. I see quite a few of them hitting the whole MEAN stack thing keeping everything in Javascript. This is troubling because it seems like most bootcamps are looking to make a quick buck keeping everything in Javascript and students are oblivious to what actually happens in real world.

I have talked to a few and they had no idea that there is anything else other than React and Node and they are hoping to get a job quickly. Am I crazy or what ?

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A bunch of my current company’s backend is in JS on node. I’m not sure it’s so bad.

I’ve had a different experience that most didn’t know much programming, but understood some typical webapp patterns.

If more bootcampers came out with a solid understanding of programming principles and software engineering basics, the language they knew wouldn’t matter as much.

Edit: I’ll also add that yes, they probably are looking for a job quickly, and that should be OK. Many bootcampers are trying to improve their lives by making a drastic change in their career. I think bootcamps set students’ expectations too high. They apply for as many jobs as they can without really knowing if they are a good fit. Often they’re not but there is some company out there that needs a jr web dev who would love to help them develop their skills and career. It’s just probably a bad idea to go for early and mid stage startups.

You have made some good points. I agree that it is not about the language but more about the programming principles and understanding. I guess I am not seeing that enough from bootcamp graduates. It seems more like a problem with bootcamps than the students themselves.

Yep, I completely agree. I think that a lot of the folks coming out of the bootcamps will be fine in a dev job somewhere, just not at at a high growth startup with a lot of university trained software engineers. It's really disappointing that bootcamps aren't doing more to help funnel their graduates into the best roles for their skillsets.

Curriculum varies by the bootcamp. The best ones design and iterate their curriculums based on feedback from the local job market, as they know they won't be in business long if they're not putting forward qualified candidates.

Also, a willingness to mentor is important when hiring any entry level developer. Bootcampers can require different mentoring, but in my experience so far they're not wholly worse off than a CS grad with no life experience to lean on. Focus on the fit of the person, first.

To be fair, I am biased - I completed a bootcamp 3 years ago after 15 years in hardware/networking. Bootcamp tought me the fundmentals of OOO using the .NET/C# stack. Focus on JS technology was much lighter. I joined a backend ETL & Data API team with high coding standards and high empathy for mentoring. I now pass that training and mentality onto others - mostly CS grads.

> students are oblivious to what actually happens in real world.

Is Node not happening in the real world? Most job ads I see look for node, far more than python or php, so it makes perfect sense for bootcamps to teach that, not to mention keeping everything in one language.

I believe this question is not quite accurate. Node is happening in the real world, yes. But often companies with a couple of years in the market would have a different stack that isn't that hyped like JavaScript stuff.

They require actual programming skills, not programming language skills. And this I think is the most important part. I'm just not sure if we could ask this from Bootcampers, since their learning process is just sufficient to spit them out to the market.

From what I understand it is simply not useful to expect Bootcampers to have such knowledge. These courses are made to spit people out to the easiest part of the market: start ups and other (small) businesses willing to pay little and receive a lot.

Learning PHP, Python or Java for back-end development is ineffective for Bootcamp courses and bootcampers. They require you to understand programming instead of programming languages, for a quick and functional delivery.

IMHO: It is the role of such companies hiring these people to actually teach them how the "real world" looks like and shape them accordingly.

Actually, I am planning to start a service similar to Bootcamp which focuses purely on Python. I have picked Python after a lot of consideration.

If you were going to teach people one language today that is commercially useful it probably would be Javascript.

People who are leaning toward scientific or data analysis stuff might do Python.

Languages with a more static type system or that require OO design to do anything add a whole new bunch of skills to be learned. That goes double for real systems languages like C/C++/Rust.

Most recent bootcamp grads I've encountered were taught basic Ruby on Rails with a small amount of JavaScript (usually some React as well), HTML, and CSS.

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