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Comment by coldtea | Hacker News Reader

That was at a time when wars were fought with such arms, and the police had the same. Heck, that was true for 100+ years afterwards still.

Now the police even has tanks and army level guns, and the army of course has 1000x the resources, airplanes, drones, etc.

And of course, at the time the states were indeed independent and fighting fiercely for that. Now (and ever after the Civil War) it's all a charade, from what I understand, and it's all as the Federal government says, not really a union of independent states (as independent countries), but a state divided in N prefectures that just happen to be called states...

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In your reading, guns used to be able to preserve liberty, but now they're irrelevant because the state security forces can just brutally crush any resistance with their superior firepower? That's not good rhetoric, and it's not even true! Just look at the success all those tanks and airplanes and trillions of dollars had in Afghanistan, for example. I also disagree with the finer points of "guns means freedom", but I don't think yours is a valid argument.

>Just look at the success all those tanks and airplanes and trillions of dollars had in Afghanistan, for example.

Because the average law abiding, fast-food fed Joe Public is gonna fight a full on war? Or get guns, support, and people to come join "the cause" from abroad? Or have any advantage over the government forces in "knowing the area"?

All the more reason to preserve what is left, then.

It is said that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.".

I'd say this idea, that after you are guaranteed worse results, you should double down, is even more insane.

If anything, what I wrote is all the more reason to find new strategies that don't involve "we'll fight them with guns".

Besides who'll do the fighting? The kind of people that have guns are in more in favor of fascism and army rule than those who don't. So all it takes to get them on the side of the opressors it's to sell it to them as army control, as opposed to "big government" control.

> The kind of people that have guns are in more in favor of fascism and army rule than those who don't. So all it takes to get them on the side of the opressors it's to sell it to them as army control, as opposed to "big government" control.

I feel like you have never talked to a gun owner before. Though they may lean towards the pro police/pro military side, they absolutely would not bow to the government implementing some kind of mass martial law.

Lastly, our military swears an oath to the people and the constitution, not the government. Every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, and Guardsman is bound by oath to refuse unlawful orders. Any hint of stuff like you're talking about would lead to mass revolt within military ranks themselves. Militias would form, and armaments would be taken from the military's caches to launch a resistance.

>I feel like you have never talked to a gun owner before. Though they may lean towards the pro police/pro military side, they absolutely would not bow to the government implementing some kind of mass martial law.

That's what they pay lip service too. In practice the huge majority are chickens, when they're not pro-army (and the first to cheer for an actual martial law, as long it was done by favorable politicians to them).

>Lastly, our military swears an oath to the people and the constitution, not the government. Every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, and Guardsman is bound by oath to refuse unlawful orders.

Yeah, good luck with that if push comes to shove.

Well put. Second-amendment gun fanatics dwell so intently on their fantasies of bravely exchanging fire with government soldiers, when in fact their government has figured out how to oppress people in less physical and more effective ways than direct military action could ever achieve.

Have you ever met a gun owner? Most do not want government overreach, hate facism(the real definition, not the “any Trump supporter” definition the left made up last year), and would outright revolt over a military dictatorship.

Wars are still fought with such arms. It's important to remember that many of the civilians who are proponents of the 2nd Amendment were trained by the military and fought in recent wars; and understand full well what it means to prosecute a modern war.

This constant obsession about the US government potentially launching overt, ground-based military action against its own people makes me envision a doomsday prepper who invests tons of resources into a fallout shelter, but rides a motorcycle without a helmet or something. The risk assessment just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Get with the times: our governments oppress and control us in ways that don't require open conflict. The 1860s are gone forever.

Disclaimer: I've never owned a gun, and I have no military or government experience.

Given what happened in New Orleans, many aspects of prepping (the food and water and all that) are not that stupid. Only have to be without food or water or security once to be dead forever.

I would consider starving in New Orleans despite the resources of the US Military being available government oppression.

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