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Comment by telesilla | Hacker News Reader

Reading as a woman, I agree with you about the cringe however you may not be also picking up the same stereotypes and unreasonable expectations demanded of the male characters. They are often required to be some kind of impossibly strong, rational, perfect male-figure which is equally impossible as the feminine roles they write about. If the story has other qualities, I can put these issues aside however often I just feel that the entire tale falls apart since I can't believe in the characters and their decisions.

Stanislav Lem, along with Asimov discussed here, has excellent women roles. Obviously as does Ursula Le Guin. Some other recommendations here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/50-sci-fi...

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I was going to recommend Octavia E. Butler, but I see she is already on the list. The whole Xenogenesis trilogy is good, not just Dawn (first in the series). Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents likewise.

And Connie Willis' To say nothing of the dog is hilarious! It will brighten anyone's day.

I'll just have to starting working through that list, now.

Wild Seed, also by Octavia Butler, is one of the best books I have read this decade.

It is probably the best science fiction book I have read in many years.

Yes! Feminism not only means women are allowed to be strong and smart; it also means men are allowed to show their emotions and talk about their feelings.

Yeah, no. If feminism were at all interested in improving the mental health of men, it wouldn't be called feminism. Feminism is only interested in men insofar as the whole gender is considered the source of womens' issues.

Where did you learn about the definition of feminism? Feminism is called feminism because it advocates women's rights in order to bring about equality of the sexes in all aspects of public and private life.

The term was coined in the late nineteenth century; before women's suffrage and the gradual abolishment of a whole host of other laws and customs that suppressed (and in some cases still suppress) women — hence the name of the movement.

> in order to bring about equality of the sexes in all aspects of public and private life.

And none of that has anything to do with helping men. It's all about women. Which is fine, women need advocates for all the shit they have to put up with. But pretending that feminism has any interest at all in helping men is utter bullshit and such an atrocious lie and this isn't the place to push that lie. I've never once ever in my life been helped by a feminist. I've been demonized, insulted, discriminated against, but never helped. Because that's not their goal.

In theory both Feminism and Communism are perfect, by their own definitions.

In practice, feminist District Attorneys are attacked by other feminists for defending due process, see here:

https://app.getpocket.com/read/2699410657 https://www.chronicle.com/interactives/20190807-feminist-law...

The point is, yes, in the past there were many injustices against women. No one denies this. These injustices must be corrected.

But the solution is not to tilt the balance so that all injustice now goes against men, when any accused is automatically assumed guilty, and losing their jobs, scholarships, everything, before a ruling is made.

The solution is to try to avoid any and all injustice, and we are failing at that.

Hell, we can't even criticize feminism if we are not women and self-proclaimed feminists.

Yes, that's the definition as it certainly "feels" like to many men. And because it's perceived this way, it's mission is hamstrung from the word go.

> Yes, that's the definition as it certainly "feels" like to many men. And because it's perceived this way, it's mission is hamstrung from the word go.

The problem here is men basing their view of feminism on their own emotional intuition, or at the very least, approaching feminism through the lens of third party anti-feminist activism and web culture rather than engage with feminism or feminist theory firsthand.

Obviously if everything you know about feminism comes from people who hate it, and caricature radical feminists on Twitter and Tumblr, you're not going to trust any criticism the movement has about you. But that's like expecting to get a realistic view of black culture from /pol/.

> problem here is men basing their view of feminism on their own emotional intuition,

Fair enough, but no man or woman is an island we all must be cognizant of others' perceptions.

Third-wave feminism is about including and respecting everybody who has been made unequal by systems of power and privilege, and that very much includes men.

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/01/feminism-now/

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll give them a go (Asimov I've been all over, but only a handful of Lem and Le Guin).

Excellent points - I grew up with a single mom and often semi-joke that sci-fi/fantasy provided all of my adult role models. There's a disturbing connection between my failed personal expectations of myself and the stereotypes you called out.

Le Guin is one of the all time greats. If you like fantasy, the wizard of earthsea is a classic. For sci-fi, my introduction to her was the left hand of darkness, which I devoured.

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