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Comment by tarkin2 | Hacker News Reader

People look for mates who will care for them. If you value the group over the individual then that's less likely.

The ideal, surely, is someone who looks after themselves, their partner and their friends foremost and the group after that.

When those two things come into conflict, however...

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Exactly. I know altruists who don't take care of themselves but instead need help from others. They are sort of generous but I always wonder if they are really generous if in turn their lifestyle is not self sufficient. For example if somebody helped somebody else with a big vet bill but now I am being asked to buy a car for that person I feel that actually I am the real giver and the person that thinks she is generous is not giving anything of her own but basically is giving away my money.

I have come to believe that the first duty of an adult is to be self sufficient. Only then you can be truly generous or altruistic in a sustainable way.

I've been taking money from government, family, or wealthy friends most of my life. Yet I've also given more than I've received to most of the friends I've known. I've thought much about how selfish or generous I was. You can get really cynical and say that altruism doesn't exist at all if you really get cynical and that people are just trying to fire off pleasure receptors in their brains.

Ultimately though yes people who give to others are altruistic. Some people you will give money to will keep every penny, some will give away every cent they can. The former are selfish the latter altruistic and there is no need to overcomplicate things.

I've only become more self-sufficient over time and today am a net "giver". Did I just become less selfish over time? No I've actually started valuing selfishness MORE over time because it became more appealing as I became stronger. Focusing on results confuses things because people in bad situations CAN'T be as giving as somebody in a good one. Somebody in a good situation can be generous enough to change people's lives without any meaningful personal sacrifice.

A person who is a taker and has no desire to stop being one is not truly altruistic though. Selfishly taking from others and being performatively charitable is selfishness in the veil of altruism. The desire to be seen as the "real giver" is also selfish.

"Self sufficient" is an extremely individualistic term that doesn't apply in a society. "Pulling your weight" is more balanced.

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