The physical Apple Card is a case of form over function | Hacker News Reader

The physical Apple Card is a case of form over function

jeffgeerling.com

192 pointsgeerlingguy225 comments

On another note my experience with customer service on the Apple card is absolutely abysmal. My card was locked on Monday probably because I'm traveling in Europe and that flagged some fraud detection algorithm. With any of my other cards I could resolve this in minutes with a quick SMS or at worst a phone call. Instead I'm still waiting for a call back from a representative that was promised to come no later than Wednesday.

I guess I'll add this to the growing list of recent Apple products that look nice but are overdesigned and under engineered and functionally inferior to the competition.

They have chat via Messages on the phone, and it worked great for me the one question I had. Go to Wallet app > Apple Card > ..., then tap "Message"

I guess if you've had an issue that requires a voice call, though, that wouldn't matter. But I was able to resolve my issue in about 2 minutes via iMessages, which was a zillion times better than when I've had to deal with PNC.

Yeah I started there. I was given a phone number to call, which I called. I was then told somebody would call me to resolve the issue within two days. Five days later I haven't heard a peep. Thankfully I'm not relying on the card for anything important.

This just confirms my feeling lately that I can't afford to be locked into their ecosystem.

Sheesh. I've taken the same approach though, I still use my normal CCs for almost every transaction, just wanted to see what Apple Card was all about.

The fact that it doesn't have a web interface or any way I can tie it into my financial reporting services/apps is a major turn-off.

I'm hoping that's temporary but for now I'm just using the card for Apple purchases and gas stations.

That blows my mind, for potential fraud, "We'll call you within two days".

My bank is the opposite, they block my card and -don't- notify me until I call in because I notice it. I hate it, but they say that's "for my security".

I had a PayPal charge get flagged as potential fraud yesterday. It had a push notification and the ability to flag it as legit in the Wallet app, after which I was able to re-submit the charge successfully.

I suspect only certain levels or types of potential fraud get the "call us" approach.

> overdesigned

Underdesigned in this case. When thinking in terms of "designed to fail" this is seriously egregious. Having the most expensive phone with every useless widget you can throw in is one thing, but being forced to show off a shiny but pathetically impossible to maintain product because it would simply break if handled normally is really stretching it to the limits.

This is an example of X-Megacorp making a shitty product and then blaming the consumer for not being willing or able to keep it as a status symbol.

That's why we have so many "awesome" phones out there with cracked up screens. Look around and you can't miss them. Shit products at a premium, when the "lesser" models are clearly better.

>being forced to show off a shiny but pathetically impossible to maintain product because it would simply break if handled normally is really stretching it to the limits.

What product are you referring to?

Touché. I didn't even realize in being so specific about one product, I pretty much encapsulated all of Apple's current products.

My ancient Mac Pro has been awesome, and outlasted the PeeCees I got in the same time period and since, except for one Dell that seems to be a serious overachiever.

My Gen 2 iPod Touch still works, while none of my subsequent iPhones or iPod/iPads do, despite their increasing prettiness.

Every apple device I've purchased outside those two devices have been terrible in terms of quality. They were all awesome on purchase day, but quickly downhill thereafter. Every. one.

For example (I have a few, but will just stick to one), I cannot get over how bad Apple keyboards are. Just look at them the wrong way with a damp cleaning rag in your hand, and they'll never work properly again. Clearly designed to be tossed once they yellow. Meanwhile I have PeeCee keyboards from Y2K era that work just fine and are easily cleaned.

I have this one USB keyboard from an old Power Mac that I treat dearly because it has outlasted the hell out of every other Mac keyboard I've ever owned. They've been the worst keyboards I've ever experienced. No tactile feature or pseudo-technical salespitch makes any one of them a good deal.

The icon markings on that keyboard don't even match what the OS does with them anymore, but I won't part with it as long as I have an Apple computer that needs a keyboard, because the prospect of getting yet another one of their newer models is simply not worth it.

Phew.

Thanks for your comment. It made me laugh and then instantly come face to face with regret.

> USB keyboard from an old Power Mac that I treat dearly because it has outlasted the hell out of every other Mac keyboard I've ever owned

Let me recommend the Macintosh keyboards from the late 1980s (M0116 and M0115). 30 years later most of them (if they weren’t scrapped sometime) are still working just fine, and are very pleasant to use. The Alps SKCM keyswitches used can get a bit scratchy feeling if they have been sitting out in a dusty place for 20 years, but even in mediocre condition are nicer (and more electrically robust/reliable) than any keyswitches sold at scale today. To get these keyboards requires some kind of ADB -> USB protocol converter, but those aren’t too hard to find.

The various rubber dome USB Mac keyboards sold from 2000–2005 are cheap garbage by comparison.

Eh, Alps SKCM are nice, but buckling springs are better, and still produced by Unicomp.

Also, it's kind of a renaissance of keyboard switches right now. Kaihua is putting out some interesting designs.

They're nicer than _any_ keyswitches sold today? That seems hard to believe, are you excluding so-called mechanical switches? There's a wide variety of those out there today, and even just sticking to Cherry MX and knockoffs, they're _quite_ pleasant and there's a variety of feels, sounds, travel distances, etc. available. It's really quite a nice time to be a typist.

Alps are mechanical switches, and they're still used in some modern keyboards. Vintage Apple Alps keyboards go for quite a bit on eBay.

Sure, it's just I personally find the current quite extreme variety of keyboard switches gives a lot of room for preference. It seems surprising that you'd have to go back that far to find something ideal.

I mean if you like them best, certainly your prerogative, just found it interesting.

Alps SKCM switches have not been used in anything new in the past 2.5 decades.

There are some other similarly nice keyboard switches from the 1980s and early 90s (and some nicer ones from the 70s; keyboards have generally been on a steady decline for the past 40–50 years, as cost cutting dominated other considerations). None still sold in large numbers today.

Cherry MX are much less pleasant, IMO, and also not nearly so electrically reliable. (The Alps SKCM contact mechanism is much more complicated and better sealed. They have an extremely clean electrical signal.)

There was a much bigger variety of available keyboard switches in the 1980s than today.

Oh god yes. I got mine a couple of weeks ago and almost immediately experienced the worst customer service ever from a bank (and that’s saying something). I was considered documenting my story and sending to The Verge or something, because they’d eat this up on launch day, but ultimately my laziness and lack of free time prevailed.

The short version is that it was similar to yours. Half my transactions were declined for suspected fraud. Most of the time I was able to approve them and retry, but when I booked a non refundable hotel stay in Europe and then had it cancelled on me a couple of days later, the serious downward spiral started. Their chat support was completely incompetent and after literally promising me (I have it in writing, the only good thing about chat support) that I would have no more problems with the card, the next day it was deactivated. Nobody I dealt with ever seemed to understand the concept of fixing a problem, they just kept repeating vague statements about protecting me, without ever addressing my desire to use my card to pay for things, which seemed like the whole point when I signed up for it.

I’ve since given up on it for anything other than buying slurpees at the convenience store.

I was going to suggest destroying the card in a fit of anger, but that won't be easy - titanium is rather strong.

I hear leather and vinyl are good places to start.

It's still pretty thin, no? Should be possible to bend it relatively easy at least.

I tried, I couldn't easily bend it.

You're holding it wrong... :)

Use tools, the simplest thing coming to mind being shoving one end in a sturdy crack and then pushing the body of the card over.

Will it blend?

You can burn it FYI

> After literally promising me ... that I would have no more problems with the card, the next day it was deactivated.

I mean, you can't have any more problems with a service you don't have!

It has failed him for the last time.

You can just text them using iMessage... I've gotten my questions answered in less than 30 seconds through that.

The Wallet app redirected me to iMessage support, which then asked me to call a phone number, which led to somebody on the phone that told me to wait for a call back. Six days later I'm still waiting.

That's interesting, because last year I called up Visa to tell them I was going to Europe, and they told me they don't need to be notified of that anymore, and my card would work fine.

Perhaps different CC providers have different policies, or maybe this is some Apple thing?

Yes, the trend is to not requiring notification, but different CC providers do have different policies.

I had this a few years back, but their explanation made a lot of sense: "even if you tell us, we're going to apply exactly the same fraud detection algorithms anyway."

10 years ago I traveled to china. 8 and 6 years ago I traveled to russia. In all cases, I used my standard credit card for most stuff. No issues at all, and I didn't tell the bank beforehand.

5 years ago - months after the last russia trip, I used the same card to buy a small service from a company in sweden. I'd bought multiple times before - same service, same company for many years - and this was... $9?

Transaction flagged - entire account frozen, without warning or notification (no call or email or text) - marked as 'fraudulent activity'. Without telling me what was going on, several auto payments were declined over the next few days, and it took hours to sort everything out.

Absolutely no rhyme nor reason I can see as to how 'fraud detection' is done.

Security policies must be changing all the time due to changes in fraud patterns. The $9 transaction getting flagged in a different country isn’t a surprise anymore since banks figure out that fraudsters “test” credit card numbers with small transactions and then sell that to others (for more fraud) or use for larger fraudulent transactions. This doesn’t explain why the same transactions from the past weren’t taken into account, but must be related to this fraud pattern having a higher weight in flagging transactions.

I've been traveling all over Asia for most of the last ten years. At least a few times a year one of my cards gets flagged by some algorithm. I can resolve this almost instantly with my Capitol One card via an SMS or the app. Or I can call my back to have my debit cards unblocked in max 10 minutes.

My Apple card has been blocked for almost a week now and all I'm getting is automated responses.

Hmm... when I had transactions rejected, I would get a notification on my phone, would see the transaction in the Wallet app, confirm that it was legit, and repeat. Never had to talk with customer service in the first place.

Is that not what's happening with your card?

No. I was bounced into iMessage support, which gave me a number to call. After a few minutes on the phone with a real person I was told I'd have to wait up to days for somebody to call me back (while I'm traveling in Europe) to resolve it.

Six days later I'm still waiting.

I've had similarly poor customer service regarding Apple IDs recently. Something on Apple's side is preventing Apple IDs from being created with emails at my employer's primary domain, and after being bounced between a half-dozen support people, Apple's guidance so far has been "we can give you a 30 day whitelist which you can use to create a whole bunch of Apple IDs" or "have employees create Apple IDs with their personal emails that don't yet have Apple IDs and then change the email to a company one".

why would you choose to be a part of apples financial services beta test group?

I used to be a customer of Simple, which sends out white credit cards -- plastic, yes, but still white. And in a leather wallet, every one looked like crap in weeks. In my current Tom Bihn, non-leather wallet, they... didn't get any worse. But the reality is that white cards get crappy easily. (In fact, the reality is probably that all cards get crappy easily, but most cards don't show it as easily.)

The form of the physical Apple Card is: the form of a credit card. I would argue that it absolutely shouldn't have been a white credit card, given my experience with Simple, but, welp. I'm not sure I'm going to be carrying the damn thing anyway, less out of concern over its pristine Ive White Room-ness than because it only gets me more cash back than my Discover Card does when I pay with it electronically.

If Apple didn't publish this silly-seeming "how to take care of your Apple Card" document, then in a month, pundits would be screaming about how the Apple Card already showed signs of wear and tear, photos of cards showing unremovable leather stains or blue streaks from denim or whatever, and we'd be subject to endless bloviating about how terrible this was or was not. For better or worse, they've opted to front-load the bloviation.

Maybe Apple Card 2.0 will have a "dark mode" version...

A space grey version would be pretty slick.

check revolut, their metal plan has Grey metal card option.

Two major differences though:

- monthly fee

- it is a debit card AFAIK

Pay money for someone to hold my money in exchange for a cool looking card to access my money. Hard pass.

Of course it is not as simple as that, you could check the benefits you get from (Including recently launched zero commission trading) https://www.revolut.com/en-US/our-pricing-plans

Still, I would agree that the fee is not worth what you get.

> Of course it is not as simple as that, you could check the benefits you get from (Including recently launched zero commission trading) https://www.revolut.com/en-US/our-pricing-plans

> Still, I would agree that the fee is not worth what you get.

When you say trading is this with regards to currency conversion?

No, I mean robinhood-style stock trading(Currently only some US stocks AFAIK): https://blog.revolut.com/trading-revolut/

They launched it recently for EU, US and AU IIRC.

With any bank you're paying them to hold your money - it's just hidden in interest rates or other fees.

I have one of the matte black Cash App cards[1] that I use exclusively at festivals, sports events and all of my online subscription services. Basically it’s the card for ‘fun stuff’.

Been about 4 months of use, it’s held up incredibly well plus looks striking with the gold, raised embossed lettering of my “signature” (quotes here because I drew my name rather stylized versus using my regular John Hancock) and frequently gets positive inquiry from merchants “nice card what bank is this from?”

[1] https://www.creditcardinsider.com/credit-cards/square-cash-c...

Thanks! I just looked at the Tom Binhn wallet. This was something I was looking for, not because of the Apple Card, but in general. Just ordered one.

I was a little worried about moving to something so "minimal" but I quickly grew to like it a lot more than the bulkier wallets that I've always had before.

For 8 or so years I have been using a ¥1000 ($10) fake leather business card holder I picked up at a vendor stall in Shinbashi station. All I have it in is ID, 3 CC, bizcards and bills folded in 3rds. Fits nicely in my front pocket. All the wallets I have received over the years as gifts, etc. are in a drawer. They are just to big.

I’m sure there’s a case you can get for the Apple Card to prevent the scratches and premature wearing out

FWIW my Simple Card still looks fine, but then I use an RFID sleeve for a wallet. Just some heavy Mylar, I think.

That would probably help a lot. I had a leather wallet -- two leather wallets -- and both of them left pretty noticeable on the card I could never quite clean off.

The Front-Loaded Bloviators is a hella fetch band name.

>The Apple Card has been raked through the coals over this support document because it is not recommended for use near leather (the most common material used in wallets) or denim (one of the most common outerwear materials). Nor is it recommended to be touching any other credit cards. Nor is it recommended to be in a pocket or bag containing loose change, keys, or any other kind of potentially-abrasive items.

This is some Happy Fun Ball-level absurdity (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmqeZl8OI2M).

Right? How the hell are you expected to carry this thing?

All of my other credit cards are scratched up and look awful. If these other cards had instructions to keep them pristine, they would have similarly laughable requirements.

On a silk cushion, carried around by your servant?

Shockingly quite simple.

If you are obsessive over the look of your items then you can use the support guide to keep it looking pristine. Otherwise just use it like a normal credit card and understand that a white card is going to discolour over time.

Okay, but what is the support-guide-approved way to even carry the thing? The listed no-nos seem to exclude literally every place on my person that I carry any items.

All you'd need is a cloth wallet.

This is just pretty standard text for any metal credit card and is (as this article states) mostly for aesthetic reasons. You can and should carry your Apple Card in a normal wallet in a pair of jeans. That disclaimer stuff is just because indigo and leather coloring bleeds, and the card is white.

Really? I'm looking at the text I got with other metal credit cards (I scan everything so it's easy to search) and I don't see any "handling instructions".

Because the other card issuers didn't bother to think about the appearance of their card and didn't think users would care.

What are you talking about? The appearance of the card itself is one of the primary selling points that multiple card issuers tout. AmEx is very proud of the Platinum appearance. Chase/Marriott and Chase/Amazon made a big deal out of the fact that they have appealing metal cards. For many years one of the biggest marketing points about the Chase Sapphire Preferred (and now Reserve) was that it was a good looking metal card. I personally remember it being made a huge deal by Barclaycard when they redesigned the Arrival+ card.

Hell, some banks even use the customization of debit card appearances as a selling point for extra fees.

And yet, not with a single one of these have I ever seen anything warning about the card becoming damaged/discolored/scratched. Indeed, I personally have multiple AmEx cards, as well as the CSR and CSP, and after years of use (and gasp storing them in a leather wallet) there is very minor discoloration on one of them while the rest still look great.

The entire discussion about the appearance of a damn credit card of all things is absurd. It was absurd when every other card issuer did it, but it's even more absurd now that it seems to have been brought to the forefront by the Apple Card.

No, this is just plain false - card issuers have been in serious competition for the last 5+ years in making their cards look nice and stand out.

I use a metal money clip with all of my cards packed tightly together. Would that cause any issues with Apple Card?

No.

> This is just pretty standard text for any metal credit card

FWIW I have four different metal cards and have not received this warning with any of them. In the case of the Apple Card, I'd say it's due more to the fact that the card is white than that it's metal.

Fair point, I was more talking about disclaimers about the card getting scratched next to keys, etc.

I've got a metal Capital One Venture card. I've had it for about a year. It's in a metal wallet, touching other cards. I see it has some superficial scratches on the front, but none of the lettering, numbers, or mag strip has worn down at all.

They are literally just explaining in some esoteric support document how to not scratch it if you care about that (you shouldn't).

This doesn't matter. This is the internet outrage machine people are always talking about.

it's not just a generic advice, you literally can't put the card into a leather wallet. I've seen two people already whose cards are completely brown. I have plenty of light cards in my wallet, this is the first time I've seen one degrade this quickly.

I put mine in a leather wallet and it seems to work.

Do you care about how your other cards look? No. This advice is intended for a niche of people who are obsessive about how a credit card of all things look.

Regardless, I've had mine in jeans with no issue at all.

The card, unlike most, was basically sold on the basis of its brand and assistance.

Wouldn't be surprised if Apple was working on ideas to remedy this unfortunate situation. Given the $999 for a stand i could imagine something like this for carrying your Apple Card: https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/monstranz-mwd-pictura/398...

>because the physical card does not fit my use case, I've elected to keep it in a file cabinet.

This is exactly the intended "use case" of the card. The physical card is what sells the Apple Card account. Look at all of the people that signed up (on HN, no less — where everyone knows that XYZ card gives better rewards). Yes, yes 3% back at the Apple Store — it's only logical. Was everyone really itching to make a purchase the Apple Store last week? How many people would sign up if it was a only virtual card?

So the slick card gets people to apply on day one, then for a while, customers carry it and show it to their friends. "Ooooh, Ahhh. Where's the number?" Then (like a lot of metal cards) they decide it would be a lot easier to just use Apple Pay and stash the card somewhere else.

Incidentally, mine is crammed in a leather wallet and looks the same as it did on day one. But I would argue that the function of the physical card is just as much to be somewhat UNdesirable for daily use as it is to be desirable to obtain.

As for the declined charges and customer service, I imagine it's just growing pains (iMessage to opt out of arbitration only took a minute). It does seem like Apple should have a big button in the UI for traveling overseas. Hopefully, they'll evolve to be like Amex and just figure it out — especially since your phone is presumably coming along on the trip.

> This is exactly the intended "use case" of the card.

I'd say the intended use case of the Apple Card is have people using Apple Pay, not swiping/inserting the physical card. I'd bet putting it away in a filing cabinet is exactly what Apple was hoping most would do.

This whole thing reminds me of American Psycho, people comparing how their credit cards look, kind of strange to me but I realise I must be in the minority if Apple think it’s a good idea.

No different to people spending money on expensive watches, bags, clothes.

You still see less popular celebrities flashing about their American Express Centurion cards.

Not many celebrities getting Centurion cards issued in the US anymore.

I'll agree with this. I was 18 when that movie came out and I immediately got business cards made with nothing but my name on the front. I also immediately signed up for the card and when I got it, I had the same feeling as when those cards arrived back in 2000.

What feeling is that?

The feeling of wanting to tie someone up and lecture them on Huey Lewis and the News before murdering them, I suppose.

> The feeling of wanting to tie someone up and lecture them on Huey Lewis and the News before murdering them, I suppose.

But you don't need no credit card to ride this train...

Every time I see people talking about the apple card, I have a bit of a double-take. The card was free right? It's not a luxury good, right? It lives in your wallet 99.9% of the time, right?

Also, it blows my mind that it doesn't support contactless. First American banks were behind by a decade on chip and pin, now they can't get on board with this either and it's holding back the adoption of contactless credit card POS readers in the USA which is also holding back Apple Pay. Weird choice.

Of course it doesn’t support contactless. Apple wants you to use Apple Pay for contactless, not the physical card.

Edit: in a comment much lower down someone mentioned that the fact the card is made out of titanium may have made contactless hard/impossible. That had not occurred to me.

My chase sapphire card is metal and has contactless payment

Well that proves it’s possible. So much for that theory.

It’s a metal core sandwiched with layers of plastic on the front and back. Mine is starting to peel.

From a marketing perspective though I think it'd be more effective if you encouraged your users to get out their "unique" card for contactless payments. No one really looks at the iPhone screen as the payment goes through so you lose the opportunity to show the card off.

They even aren't particularly prestige with their acceptance criteria - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-card-goldman-sachs-sub...

You should enjoy this then:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cultofmac.com/646838/americ...

regular link: https://www.cultofmac.com/646838/american-psycho-apple-card-...

Thank you :pray:

Direct link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg9579wvLFE

I don’t know about others but for me a metal credit card is a novelty. Heck even a transparent plastic card was a relative novelty to me. That makes it interesting (in the short term).

I'm gonna be honest. I got the card for Form as I don't really use credit cards but always like to have one in case of an emergency. I was not disappointed. It is a beautiful card and has turned heads of every cashier have I handed it to. Getting the daily cash back notifications was genius on their part. I wouldn't be surprised if I use the card more than I thought I would solely because of the form.

I also purchased a cheap plastic sleeve to keep it in to keep it looking good.

Do you keep the card separate from your wallet (e.g. in a pocket or something)?

I agree the card looks amazing, it's in stark contrast to the vibrant colors on my other cards. It just doesn't work well with my small leather card case or my iPhone card case (the latter mostly because I can't charge wirelessly).

I use a compact wallet and just keep the card (in a plastic sleeve from amazon to keep it looking fresh) in one of the accessible side slots.

https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Mason-Black-Leather-Card/dp/B073...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X968MFG

I agree.

Look at that stark white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has an Apple logo.

A card so gorgeous, most people probably don't think about the practicality. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends. It's also a personal statement about the brand itself.

> I'm gonna be honest. I got the card for Form as I don't really use credit cards

I'd say you should always use credit cards, except when it is not possible to use them. Just don't use the _credit_ part. That way you get points and whatever features your card has (purchase protection, price matching, etc).

Strictly speaking, if you have control, yes. Fraud protection, cash back, etc. are all really useful.

But, if you can't control spending, just use debit. In fact, the only place I wouldn't use a debit card if I could avoid it is a gas pump (magstripe fraud)

I have not found a credit card UI that helps control spending and budgeting the way that Simple (checking) does. I haven't tried integrating with Mint or others, but the realtime tangible money-moving aspect helps me realize the money and swipes I'm spending are real.

I've used only a credit card for years. I like the protection - US credit card law is very favorable to the customer. I pay my balance down to zero once or twice a month, so it doesn't cost me any fees.

> Just don't use the _credit_ part.

How do you not use the credit part?

Pay in full every month.

You’re still using the credit until the end of the month though?

Yes you are, but if you pay in full every month then you don't incur any interest charges. It's a free loan from the credit card company to you.

In the past, people who paid in full every month were called "deadbeats" by the card issuers because they were far less profitable than those who carried a balance.

The top tier of cards, like AmEx, are usually (not always) charge cards, so they don't structure their business off interest, instead they go for throughput and earn off merchant charges.

Pay the card off in full every month by the due date. Or even pay more money onto your card than you've spent, it's possible to have a positive balance on some credit cards.

> That's pretty ridiculous, because that rules out probably 90% of the valid use cases for a credit card... and other plastic credit cards don't have this issue.

But other cards DO have this issue. They look like crap after a while.

For anyone looking for a metal card with fewer physical disadvantages than the Apple Card, you might consider an Amex Platinum. The card is very pretty, and mine has stayed in good condition after extended (and ordinary) usage. Of course, the Platinum card comes with a very high annual fee. It’s awesome if you travel a lot. If you don’t, you’ll struggle to make up for the fee. Beyond that, Amex customer support for me at least has been stellar, and their apps are quite good as well.

FYI you can call Amex and ask them to waive or refund the fee. As long as you are a regular user of the card, they will do it in a heartbeat.

My husband had no such luck - he cancelled.

No way they are waiving $550. But I’ll try with the Platinum Schwab I just got in order to cash out 200K points. They’ve never waived my gold card when I’ve tried and I’ve had that card over a decade.

I’m done with AmEx after this because I just don’t use the points anymore.

I find the Chase Sapphire to be my most attractive card. I’m canceling that one too though. 2% cash back is where’re it’s at for me from now on.

I got the Apple Card solely for Apple purchases and gas pumps and sketchy web sites. I don’t use gas pumps or sketchy web sites all that often but I’m convinced I’ve been skimmed twice on pumps and it will be nice to have a new number at the tap of a button in the Wallet app.

I actually don’t find the Apple Card very attractive, and don’t like how heavy it is. BTW, you don’t get a physical card by default. I think Apple clearly wants to steer folks to Apple Pay so I have no idea why they put all this effort into the physical card.

I've been an Amex cardholder for 19 years and never paid an annual fee. They waive it every time, both for business and personal cards. If you aren't an active user of the card then I could see them pushing back but I've never had any issue at all - it's a 5 minute call for me.

You can use the monthly uber credits on uber eats and recoup about 40% of the annual fee

Amex has the best support ever, I concur. They helped me transfer all of my points between two countries when I moved, and because I got a new card, I qualified for the initial bonus boost a second time.

For what it’s worth, I’ve been using the Apple Card pretty much exclusively for about a month and a half (in a leather wallet, and I only wear jeans), and it’s been nothing but enjoyable.

Same. No discoloration or anything of that sort here.

My Simple card got quite a bit of discoloration from my leather wallet. I'd expect the same to eventually happen with the Apple Card.

That said, my wallet's been accidentally through the wash enough times to lose a lot of the dye in the leather. Maybe it'll be fine!

Well, Apple expects you to use Apple Pay for the vast majority of your transactions. The physical card is a last resort, it's allowed to be more form than function as eventually, you'll only want it for the former.

I applaud apple for taking full advantage of their user base.

Millions of people addicted to the vanity of their products that leap at the next opportunity to differentiate themselves from the unwashed masses.

The truly hilarious part is that this newest "product" is just a mechanism to further indebt yourself to the largest corporation on the planet.

Bravo Apple, glad I own your stock.

AirPods as well: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/neaz3d/airpods-are-a-trag...

See also upthread where twenty comments are dedicated to discussing cards that aren’t white and which issuers will give them and how cool they look and how proud one person is of their gold signature on black card especially.

> I also believe the physical titanium Apple Card is a marvel of engineering

Three SpaceX rockets landing vertically in unison is a marvel of engineering.

This is a metal credit card.

Have you held and inspected one? The thing is pretty ridiculous in its tolerances. It's not on the same scale as a modern rocket, but I'm willing to bet the microscopic tolerances and knowledge of metallurgy / material science (titanium alloys) is on a similar plane.

If its like every other metal credit card, it's a stamped piece of metal that comes from sheet stock. Then they glue the metal front onto a plastic backing that has the magstripe.

It's not like the others. Which you'd know if you had checked one out before posting.

It is a minor marvel that titanium can now be wasted on disposable ephemera.

I can afford a metal credit card...

Has anyone else just ignored the recommendations from Apple in how to store the card?

I keep it in my wallet like any other card and haven't noticed any scrapes/marks on the card or issues swiping.

Vast majority of the outrage is from people who would never consider getting an Apple credit card to begin with. They just look for any reason to turn their nose up at Apple. In this case, it a CYA support document.

I love my Apple card. The noise it makes when dropped onto a desk or table hasn't gotten old yet. It's actually kind of ridiculous how loud it is. I don't plan on using it for anything but app store purchases, and maybe a new MBP next year.

Of course, the credit card market in the US is so competitive that they are competing hard on even the look of the cards - anything to stand out and get attention. This has been going on for a while, less function for more glitz. Metal cards have been becoming more and more prevalent despite being functionality worse than plastic cards in almost every way[1].

The Apple card is just taking it to the inevitable extreme.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/4zwpvt/psa_your_f...

I continue to be surprised that no one seems to be discussing the fact the card is rotated 180° from normal. The EMV chip is in the right and the mag stripe is on the bottom.

An odd decision. I’d love to know the reason behind it.

Maybe so that the Apple logo remains visible during the transaction

but they could have just as easily put the logo and the user's name on the right and the chip on the left

Most people read left-to-right and expect text to start in the top left. It would look absurd if the name was on the right.

My Capital One Visa card is exactly the same so its not just Apple.

Really? I’ve never seen another card like that. Interesting.

I just checked mine half one way half the other so it seems random I guess.

I literally don’t understand why they didn’t make the chip the apple logo. It seems so obvious.

why they didn’t make the chip the apple logo

Because no card reader would then be able to use it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_7816#7816-2:_Cards_wit...

They could’ve put a larger Apple logo around the chip, but maybe it just didn’t look good.

A metal credit card is a status symbol, for people who can't afford an actual status symbol like a Coutts card. Complaining about it's lack of practicality is like complaining that your Ferrari doesn't handle well in your local multi-story car park. Of course it doesn't, because you've bought the Ferrari to drive through town and have people stare.

The function is the form. Let's lay aside the physical design, the Apple card has inferior benefits to most comparable cards and the notification features that Apple seems to think it's pioneering have been available from plenty of other banks for years. I already have my cards in my Apple wallet, I already have an App that tells me exactly what I've spent and when, I even have an App that aggregates all my spending and tells me my budget. As for privacy, it's still a Goldman Sachs mastercard, your spending history is going straight through them and pretending that your spending is private is simply a lie. In fact it's pretty astonishing that Apple is using the Facebook lie of "We don't sell your data" - no you don't sell our data, you sell access to the profiles you create about our habits.

Anyway, this turned into a bit of a rant, but seriously, status symbols don't compete on practicality, they compete on status.

> The card feels great in your hand. It has a beautiful white finish. The letter and logo detail is impeccable. The way the magstripe seamlessly integrates into the titanium structure of the card is beautiful, and probably required some extremely precise machining.

Do you realize that this is pure American Psycho material? In fact the whole paragraph seems almost lifted from this scene:

https://youtu.be/aZVkW9p-cCU

> With any modern iPhone, the Apple Card acts as a perfect RF block for Qi wireless charging (which operates in the 80+ kHz range).

> This means, if you are like me, and store your credit card in an iPhone case, say goodbye to the ability to charge wirelessly.

Yeah you really shouldn't be doing this with plastic cards as well... Really really shouldn't

I completely stopped taking the article seriously in any way at this point. Qi + credit cards sounds like a great way to have a wallet full of useless pieces of demagnetized plastic.

Isn't that true of nearly all Apple hardware products now?

Yep.

The Apple MacBook keyboard is a case of form over function. The Apple TV remote is a case of form over function. Every mouse Apple has released is a case of form over function. ...

I actually like the apple tv remote, why is it form over function?

Too small, so it keeps falling between sofa cushions.

Ambiguous orientation (in the dark).

Too easy to press buttons unintentionally.

Amen to all of that. The only mice that make my arm hurt are from Apple.

Also: Trading real Esc and Fn keys for the stupid touchbar; lack of upgradability; trading thinness for reliability; trading thinness for battery life

Stuff like this is why I’m holding out for the Apple Card Pro.

Note that "form over function" couldn't be a worse translation of what must have originally been "Form über Funktion".

1. Form is supposed to deliver function. Useless forms are eschewed by the Bauhaus architects of thought.

2. über in some cases is connotated as through, by, per, via, with, eg. "financed through a loan" (über einen Kredit).

3. If one might authoritatively opine that "over" implies a hierarchic priority, this would pervert the idea to a degree.

In sum, I'm not sure what people think of the proverb or what was originally meant. Ironically, the form and function of the phrase are in Bauhaus style.

I wonder if when released in the UK/Europe it will have a magstripe. I don't think I've ever had to swipe my card/sign except outside of Europe.

As an aside I love how I can disable the magstripe on my TransferWise card.

So I have one. It is quite nice to hold and is well made, however because I cannot really carry it in my wallet or pocket, it stays in the desk drawer. I also have the Amex Platinum which is also metal. No issues on carrying that one. Here is a look at for those that care:

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/unboxing-platinum-metal-car...

No relation to the site, just first good hit with details on the card itself, however I still have not found out what kinda of metal it is.

I have a chase sapphire card which is also metal. I have had to have it replaced twice. Once because the chip reader part flaked off and another because the magnetic strip stopped working

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is the change from the original marketing materials which described the user's name as being engraved on the card, rather than printed.

Ultimately I think complaints about the physical card are sort of silly. To be honest, I'm a little surprised Apple included one at all, since the point is to drive businesses in the US to supporting contact-less payments. Of course once they decided to include a physical card, it wasn't going to be a basic plastic card.

> point is to drive businesses in the US to supporting contact-less payments.

So the card does not support contactless payment by itself? Only magnetic strip and chip? I hadn't realised this, but I guess might be difficult to do in metal.

Is it too much to wonder whether making it out of metal is to distract from this missing feature, because they'd prefer you to pay with the phone?

They probably wanted to remove every single thing from the card that was superfluous - leaving the name, chip, magstripe, Apple's logo along with the bank and network logo (GS and MC).

Particularly, no numbers, signature, bank contact info, or NFC.

And yes, they get away with this by pushing wireless payment, number/CVV, and contact onto the phone.

It's not exactly a missing feature; I have a bunch of (mostly high-end) credit cards and none of them support contactless.

Even in Australia where contactless is ubiquitous I still need to use my card in about 5% of transactions. Often it's the design of the machine that makes it hard to complete with your phone.

And then if you keep failing to complete it will ask you to insert/swipe a physical card.

Are you sure it's printed? It looks laser engraved in the same way that custom iPod messages are. Doesn't look like it can rub off to me.

Not positive, but it definitely looks different from the marketing materials (even those still being used).

"The Apple Card has been raked through the coals over this support document because it is not recommended for use near leather (the most common material used in wallets) or denim (one of the most common outerwear materials). Nor is it recommended to be touching any other credit cards. Nor is it recommended to be in a pocket or bag containing loose change, keys, or any other kind of potentially-abrasive items."

It's the Happy Fun Ball of cards. I'm honestly impressed.

I received the physical Apple Card a few weeks ago, and used it for the first time today (I have used Apple Pay dozens of times).

Something I noticed immediately when I started carrying it is that it seems to block the signal from my office door key, and I must separate them to open the door.

Two scuff marks have appeared on the magnetic strip, but otherwise there are no cosmetic issues like others have mentioned. Overall, I like it.

It could potentially be used as a cutting tool or a knife by terrorists.

Perhaps it should be banned on flights for the paranoid.

I wouldn't be surprised if 'form over function' is one of the company's mission statements.

I hope the part about "pesky retailers" not accepting contactless payment methods was sarcasm.

Why would it be? It's ridiculous that more than half the places I go still don't accept contactless payments. Almost all of them have readers that accept it, and half of this group has a little sticky note in the chip reader that says "SORRY NO CHIP." Seriously?

At H&M this past weekend in Southern California they wouldn't allow contactless (Apple Pay) for payments over $100. It's arbitrary, annoying, and customer-hostile.

In places where chip & PIN is ubiquitous, the idea is that if your credit card is stolen, your card can't be maxed out without your PIN for verification. AFAIK the limits don't distinguish between contactless credit cards and Apple/Google Pay - maybe they should, since the latter typically does require some kind of authentication.

Not sure what's sarcastic about it. I only shop at places where I can pay by phone. More secure, faster, and I get an instant receipt from Google Pay no matter what. I carry no credit cards on me, and it's one less thing to worry about if I lost my wallet. And a lot of the time, I go out without carrying even a wallet.

You get a record of transaction, but it's not a receipt - e.g. I can't imagine any store will let you return an item if you show them a Google Pay transaction rather than an actual store receipt, be it paper or electronic.

Let's see Paul Allen's card.

Oh my god - it even has a watermark

So, a v1 Apple product? All jokes aside, to me, Apple tends to release beautiful products from the beginning that often lack the killer functionality that drives mass adoption, but has a reasonably good track record of catching up on that in subsequent releases.

Apple Card 2.0 Pro - available in denim, leather, or diamond-coated black ceramic with turtleneck print.

You're not supposed to _use_ the physical Apple Card. It's not just that the card is unusual or somehow hard to use, the whole service is designed to reinforce the fact that the card is a "worst case scenario" for paying: You get only 1% cash back when you use the physical card, but you get 2% cash back when you use the virtual card in Apple Pay. You're (not-so-)literally losing money when you use it!

The card is supposed to be a conversation piece, not your primary form of payment. Because metal cards have previously been the privilege of the upper classes, Apple's continuing its trend of trying to sell "affordable luxury" by offering this card to basically everyone. It's a promotional tool to get people to sign up for the card, and then start to use Apple Pay more. It's 100% form, and it was _meant_ to be form, this article is kind of missing the point.

Meh it's perfectly designed. They want you to stop using a wallet. The ultimate goal of the physical card is to kill the wallet, other cards and eventually itself to be replaced by just the phone.

I find it especially ironic given that Steve Jobs was so fond of jeans.

The blocking wireless charging when using a card case has been a pain with all the new metal cards. I wish Chase and others would offer an option for "plain" plastic.

Dumb question, as I've never used wireless charging before: why can't you just flip the phone over so it's sitting screen down when you have the metal card in a pouch on the back? Will it not charge in that position?

Won’t charge in that orientation, it’s very finicky about placement. See Apple abandoning their charging mat whose main selling point was greater flexibility in placement by having many overlapping coils.

It won't, the charging coils are on the back of the phone, and there's both too much metal and too much distance between the coils and the front of the phone. In some phones with removable backs, the Qi charging coils were actually on the removable back part. (e.g. Lumia 950)

I too struggle to get the card out of my thin folder. I had to remove a few seldom-used cards because I couldn’t get the card out.

Pretty much like most of the products they've been coming out with lately.

With Hive gone things will go back to normal. Obviously he lost it.

Two decades ago I used to bling out with Versace and other labels on items that were guaranteed to only last one season. I gave that up back then. I'm not about to start doing it with "gift cards" now. Trendy is such a wasteful way to live.

If you need to throw money away for status, I can think of far more beneficial ways to do it than a poorly designed payment card that scratches and stains too easily.

Of course, it doesn't cost any money.

Like most credit cards, the Apple Card is free.

Of course, the merchant pays a fee when you use it, and you get some of that back in the form of rewards, so you have to compare how the Apple Card’s reward scheme stacks up against other cards. I’m not an expert, but from what I’ve heard it’s at least decent.

So there’s really no money being thrown away here.

The rewards are ok for a free card as long as you use Apple Pay. Don't use the physical card if you care about rewards (I didn't even order the card). The clear, daily cash back feature is nice.

> the merchant pays a fee when you use it

You do know that they increase the default price to compensate for the commission they pay to the banks right?

Ultimately the result is:

- the bank mostly is unaffected because it gets the point it gives you from the merchant

- Merchant increase the price that to compensate for the commission

- you are not affected because whatever you get as points you pay back with the increase in price

- whoever pays cash is paying 3% more which goes mostly to the merchant

"Poorly designed" may be subjective, but do you happen have any evidence to support your claim that Apple Card "scratches and stains too easily"?

Here's an article pointing out Apple's warning not to put these cards into leather wallets. I'm guessing they want you to carry it in a silk sachel lovingly hung around your neck by a fine golden braid. It literally went to market with everyone knowing you can't put it where you normally put such cards.

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2019/8/21/20827303/apple-card-...

> It literally went to market with everyone knowing you can't put it where you normally put such cards

But you totally can.

Apple just points out that the Apple card, like literally any other card can get scratched or discolored.

> literally any other card can get scratched or discolored.

Uhh, what?

I'm looking at my wallet of cards right now, all of which I have had for multiple years. I have 2 metal cards, 4 plastic cards. Only one of them, the one that I have had for 3 years, is discolored in any way, and even then the discoloration is minor (its more of a dulling of the shininess, not really discoloration).

I'm not saying they will, just saying they can. There's no magic coating on those cards making them particularly resistant to discoloration.

Odds are the Apple card would be exactly like your other cards.

Except the odds are that it wouldn't be exactly like my other cards. Like I said, my other cards have been daily drivers for years and only one has the slightest hint of discoloration. OTOH, Apple Cards are apparently becoming discolored after less than one month.

My Simple white plastic card became discolored very quickly. It'll depend enormously on the material (a new leather wallet is gonna bleed dye) and it's partially because the white card shows more than a darker color.

I have an Amex Platinum and it does have some of the same issues as the Apple Card. It's the metal.

What functionality has been impacted?

Why not launch a plastic card and have this as an option

Is there any demand for plastic cards beyond this one guy whose phone case doesn't work with them?

>and other plastic credit cards don't have this issue

Yes they do.

E: Are plastic credit cards really not susceptible to wear or discoloration? Doesn’t match my experience.

Not the most insightful article around.

It seemed to be mostly about his inability to use the card in his particular sleeve.

TL;DR It's metal, like many cards, which bothers the author.

I read the article, interested in real examination of the usability issues with the credit card.

What I found was someone who doesn't like metal cards, and didn't realize they would be a problem before signing up for one.

Did they really not chamfer the card? A metal 90 degree angle like that can cut skin like a knife. Any machinist would know that you have to break those edges.

So... An apple product?

You can sharpen the edge of the Apple Card into a pretty good knife. I think they should ban Apple Cards from airplanes in addition to (some) Macbook Pros.

until your post I didn't know this card was made out of metal.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking.

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