Hacker News Reader

Comment by phs318u | Hacker News Reader

Keep in mind that Apple's iCloud services in China are not actually provided by Apple. They are provided by Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., and allows Apple to, "continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations". [0]

This service even has different terms of service, than the standard iCloud offering (though I haven't done a diff to see what's changed).

The effect of this is that the encryption keys for the service for Chinese users, are in the hands of a state-owned company (not Apple).

I'm a big support of Apple's approach and ethics with respect to privacy generally, however if you're in China, or a citizen of China, then it's probably safe to assume that anything on or passing through iCloud, is fully accessible to the state, without requiring Apple's involvement (e.g. via subpoena).

[0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351

View on HN

Anybody have some details on this? I always wondered how this is handled for Chinese going abroad or Foreigners traveling in China without sending the keys back and forth.

Or do Chinese iCloud accounts still use the Chinese servers even when abroad while the western ones get to go through the great firewall for western iCloud?

that is an extremely interesting question, both from a technical and juridical point of view. Hope someone will ask apple about this in a more official channel.

This is effectively documented in the link provided:

> If you are not a Chinese citizen residing in China mainland, you can edit the country or region setting of your Apple ID to reflect your current country or region and continue using iCloud under Apple's current terms and conditions.

This only applies to users who have an Apple ID registered as being in China.

Hong Kong residents are not impacted by this.

For now.

The broader question is, if the Chinese state can demand this, then what (other than popular opinion) is stopping other states (with sufficient clout to meddle in Apple's markets and/or operations) from demanding the same?

Context of the conversation wasn't hypothetical future situations, but rather the present situation facing Hong Kong protesters.

Given that the protests are about China's over-reach into Hong Kong rule of law, Apple making any changes in the immediate future to impact Hong Kong residents would be a very challenging decision to make. It would also be particularly difficult to enforce, given that Hong Kong exists on the outside of the Great Firewall, with the rest of the wider Internet.

The company name is actually "Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd."

(I thought that was a joke/parody name, but it's actually true.)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com