Comment by gaspoweredcat | Hacker News Reader

Comment by gaspoweredcat | Hacker News Reader

conversely why do Americans pay so little for electronics? when researching to buy a new laptop about a year ago there was over a £500 difference on an identical model between the US and UK. Here are a few random examples of tech prices i just pulled up

Playstation 4 Pro: UK £349.99 US $364.99 (£291) ~£59 difference (amazon com/co.uk)

Thinkpad X1 Carbon G7 (base spec): UK £1429.99 US $1179.99 (£949) ~£480 difference (lenovo com/co.uk)

HiFiman HE-400i Headphones: UK £329 US $179.99 (£145) £184 difference (amazon com/co.uk)

Sandisk 400Gb Micro SD card: UK £67.95 US $48 (£38) £30 difference (amazon com/co.uk)

if that were your shopping list youd save a total of £753 by buying in the US, which is enough to fly LON-NY with not far off £500 left over! (LHR-JFK BA/Finnair Nov 4th-8th £270 Skyscanner.co.uk)

you guys have it pretty good over there even if you pay more for some food most other things are drastically cheaper than here in the UK. The phrase "Rip Off Britain" is very much true, we and i believe much of Europe get a pretty raw deal on the prices of things like houses, technology, cars etc

Being from Norway I considered buying electronics cheap in the in the US but discovered it was not worth it. Once you factor in the 25% VAT in, the difference shrinks. When you at considerably stronger consumer protections and warranty, the difference is all gone. Warranty in Norway on an Apple laptop is 5 year. It is just one year in the US and offers much weaker protection. If you buy a 3 year apple protection plan to get closer to Norwegian warranty, the laptop ends up getting more expensive in the US.

It just isn’t worth it.

I find the big price difference for me is on small things. Stuff like rubber bands, paper clips, tooth brushes etc will always be significantly cheaper in the US. But those things are impractical to import from abroad.

>Being from Norway I considered buying electronics cheap in the in the US but discovered it was not worth it. Once you factor in the 25% VAT in, the difference shrinks.

Nowhere in the US is there a 25% sales tax (the US VAT equivalent); 5-8% is the norm. Some states have no sales tax at all.

If you import electronics from U.S. to Norway you have to pay the Norwegian 25% VAT, not U.S. sales tax.

But the sales tax savings over VAT pay for your flight from Oslo to nyc. Then you just don’t declare the laptop as a purchase made in USA.

this exactly, i almost did it when buying my laptop, also there are tax free states like oregon (im not sure why its just what i read)

It doesn't explain the whole discrepancy, but I imagine one part of it is sales tax/VAT. Here in Europe all consumer prices are usually listed with VAT already included, while AFAIK US list prices are usually excluding sales tax.

> prices are usually excluding sales tax

Which, if charged, is usually a fraction of VAT.

Sure, but it isn't a small fraction.

Vat is usually ... 20-25% most places? (Norway is 25%).

Sales tax is often 6-10%. It is still a fraction, but not insignificant either, and not included in the list price.

How does sales tax work? As a VAT-registered business, if I were buying something for work (such as a laptop) I would pay 20% VAT but then I claim it back at the next quarter - as VAT is actually a tax on profit, not on spending. Does the same apply to sales tax or does everyone pay it regardless?

Everyone pays it on almost all goods, some labor, and usually not groceries (depends on jurisdiction)

You can have state, city, and local tax applied (or item specific like Chicago charge tax on soda for a short while)

Not everyone pays sales tax - though this might vary depending on the state. I know in Indiana, businesses do not pay it on most of the things they buy. So if an accounting firm buys printer paper, they pay no sales tax. But if I buy paper for my home, I pay it. Companies generally had a tax ID they used to get out of paying.

Non-profit organisations did not pay either in many cases.

In situations where this tax was paid, they could get a refund at tax time.

Isn’t that exemption for resale?

> I know in Indiana, businesses do not pay it on most of the things they buy. So if an accounting firm buys printer paper, they pay no sales tax.

Actually the accounting firm would typically pay sales tax on all of their equipment and supplies like printer paper.

Each state has some different rules and exemptions, but the general principle is that items bought for resale are not taxed when the business buys them. This is both for items that are simply bought and sold (like a retailer) or materials that go into a finished product (like gold and gems that a jeweler will turn into jewelry). Instead, the business will collect sales tax (and forward it to the state) when the end user buys the product.

Indiana also has an exemption for equipment used in direct production.

So taking that jewelry example further:

1. Jeweler visits a trade show and buys materials and tools to be used in making jewelry. No tax.

2. Jeweler sells finished goods to a retail store for later resale. No tax.

3. Retail store sells the jewelry to a customer. Sales tax.

There are a few other exemptions, such as certain non-profit activities.

Here are the relevant parts of the Indiana sales tax exemption certificate:

[ ] Sales to a retailer, wholesaler, or manufacturer for resale only.

[ ] Sale of manufacturing machinery, tools, and equipment to be used directly in direct production.

https://forms.in.gov/Download.aspx?id=2717

https://www.in.gov/dor/5761.htm

https://www.in.gov/dor/reference/files/sib10.pdf

Sales tax is similar. Basically, the end consumer pays it on top of the sticker price. Businesses and non-profits often don't have to pay it at all, and if they do, they can get a refund later.

In addition to 20% VAT that others have mentioned, I believe e.g. the better consumer protections increase prices. In EU the seller must refund/fix/exchange faulty products for a long time after the sale, unlike in US.

The UK price includes VAT, the US price doesn’t include sales tax.

When you add sales tax (which is paid most of the time) the difference narrows.

Although to be fair most American states have way less sales tax than the UK VAT, which is 20%.

California - 7.5%, Florida - 6%, New York State - 4%.

I was told there was also an EU electronics recycling levy, although I'm not sure how much that adds.

Your California value excludes local sales tax, in SF it's 8.5%, though restaurants usually add another "Healthy SF" charge to cover the various mandates around providing health insurance to workers, often bringing it over 10%.

Sticker prices are only loosely related to the out the door price in the US.

Not all states have sales tax, of course, just most.

Just checking but did you include any sales taxes? UK prices normally include VAT. I'm not sure whether US prices include sales tax.

Seems from https://www.tax.ny.gov/pubs_and_bulls/publications/sales/loc... that the total sales tax depends on where the customer receives it, for Manhattan it's ~8.6% total including the 4% that goes to the state.

https://www.tax.ny.gov/pubs_and_bulls/publications/sales/loc...

That still looks like a substantial [raw monetary] saving by causing massive amounts of pollution and flying to USA to shop.

I don't know whether customs would impound your stuff when you get back and demand import duties be paid?

The tax-free import limit in EU for air travel is 430 EUR after which you have to pay VAT (and duties, if applicable).

I bet many don't do that, though...

Yep - especially in the times of weaker dollar, it was customary to ask any relative going to the US to buy a new laptop/camera/whatever for you while he's there. You could save up to 50% this way.

Well, for the sandwich case - UK does not charge VAT (or 0 rate).

Basically because food is generally VAT free in the UK. Exceptions are eat in at restaurant (VAT), vs take away (no VAT), and take away of certain hot foods (VAT).

Generally same in the US. In California, there is no sales tax on food except for 1) eat-in and 2) take-away of hot food. You see the latter apply in Subway, for example, when purchasing a sandwich with a hot filling (say, meatball marinara) versus cold (roast beef).

Prepare to get very jealous if you research building a gaming PC in Europe and seeing US prices.

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