Comment by krapp | Hacker News Reader

Comment by krapp | Hacker News Reader

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> It's currently in-vogue to be scared of and hate nazi's. For some reason though that sentiment never took root against communists.

It did, there was plenty of paranoia and hatred of communists during the Cold War days, we just never fought an actual war against communists (edit: except in Vietnam and Korea, I forgot that for some reason...) Of course, a lot of that Red Scare stuff was just a thin coat of patriotic paint over anti-semitism and anti-gay bigotry, but I digress.

Also, it's not in-vogue to hate Nazis. Everyone other than Nazis has hated Nazis consistently ever since Nazis were a thing.

What is in-vogue, however, is to be a nazi (little n, colloquial meaning, because I know sometimes people like to be pedantic) amongst the American right and alt-right, as the current American President's election has coincided with a revival of right-wing populism and white supremacist identity politics. No, I am not calling Trump a nazi nor am I calling all Trump supporters nazis so they can stop clutching their pearls ... that white supremacists decided to turn the populist movement that brought him into power into a narrative of racial identity and purity has been well documented, and it actually depends little whether Trump has sympathy for them, or is just their dark horse.

And that is why America is currently concerned about nazis (little n) and not communists. Because the nazis (little n) managed to meme a President into office, and the communists did not.

>It's almost like that type of political ideology took root in american institutions thus paving the way for this new narrative to take hold that communism is good and facism is bad.

There is no such "new narrative." Communism has never been trusted in the US, and fascism has always been "bad."

> What is in-vogue, however, is to be a nazi (little n, colloquial meaning, because I know sometimes people like to be pedantic) amongst the American right and alt-right, as the current American President's election has coincided with a revival of right-wing populism and white supremacist identity politics.

Can I offer a different perspective?

A vocal minority on the left likes to assert that everyone on the right is a bunch of nazis but that doesn't make it true nor does it make it "in-vogue". If you move past that broad group ("the right") and just consider the more vocal/visible/strident right-wing activists, they are almost all promoting western civ cultural values, which is not the same thing as "white-supremacy" but irks the multi-cultural crowd quite a bit as it requires making value judgements on other cultures and ideologies (which is not the same thing as making a value judgement on other races or people with particular skin colors). I think the visibility/growth of this group is more of a reaction to the identity politics, multi-culturalism, and intersectionality ideas of the left than to Trump's election.

And if you move past both of those groups to the remaining folks who are indeed advocating for some sort of race or blood based supremacy theory you are talking about a insignificantly small group that has no support anywhere, certainly isn't in-vogue, isn't being "revived" in any substantial way, and mainly serves as the bogeyman that the left uses to smear anyone who disagrees with them.

Upvoted for insight, accuracy and conciseness.

As an european, seeing the american far right make a hold-up on so-called "western civ" is deeply unsettling.

The thing they promote as rooted in "western civ" and say is shared among "westerners" is not related to anything I know here. It is also surprising to hear about the opposition to "multi-culturalism" when Europe has never had one single culture.

So please if you want to promote that thing of yours, stop calling it "western". Call it american, or what you want that doesn't represent it as rooted in some thing we'd share in your imagination.

You aren't clear in what things you claim the "far right" is advocating but I'm guessing it isn't the things that I think the right is advocating like:

    * individual rights
    * equality for women
    * limited government (especially at the national level)
    * free market economics
    * personal responsibility
    * separation of church and state

You are probably right that there are some things that are more American than European (expansive free speech rights, gun ownership), but I was trying to keep things simple by saying "western civ". The right wants to welcome people who support these ideas and shun people who don't support these ideas.

As for multiculturalism, your comments suggest that your use of that term is not the same as mine. Multiculturalism from the left is not about assimilating people from disparate cultures but instead is about insisting that the ideas I listed above aren't to be valued and instead all cultures and ideologies are to be accepted as is, leading to balkanization, discord, and the devaluation of the ideas that have made the "West" and America successful.

Half of the the things you cite are not core components of european societies. France has historically implemented colbertism, Germany is ordoliberal, both things which are at odds with free markets. Limited govt has never been a thing in Europe, e.g. most european countries have a government-run social system including healthcare. Personal responsibility is a major rift between american liberals (in its actual meaning) and european liberals, since europe mostly defends a positive enforcement of liberties, while the US goes the other way.

Promoting your ideas as "western civ" in order to give them polish is an unfounded appeal to authority. The fact that Europe succeeded despite not sharing your views shows why this appeal is wrong.

Please keep your internal politics at home, and don't get us involved.

I'm pretty surprised at the hostility you have in your comments and your effort to convince me that there is little in common between the ideas I listed and your understanding of European sensibilities in these areas. You almost go as far as too say that there is nothing in common.

I'm not willing to accept your pushback on its face, but it certainly has me thinking a bit more about my own assumptions about what we share with Europe.

I'm still in the dark about what has made you hostile to whatever you think the American "far-right" is advocating. If it is some of the ideas I listed that would be good to know. If it is some mistaken understanding about what the "far right" is in America, that would also be good to know but I can't really tell from your comments.

Well... yeah... but now we have a Commissioner for the "European way of life". Last time I checked that same person ought to be the commissioner for immigration.

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