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Comment by steve19 | Hacker News Reader

So they detained him and then found a reason: plastic BBs in a checked bag. Less dangerous than the plastic knives they serve with food in the cabin.

China strictly controls ammunition inside China. There is no way plastic BBs are considered ammunition.

... But if China does they better stop the illegal export of BBs and airsoft guns to the USA. Taiwan will happily increase production.

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> There is no way plastic BBs are considered ammunition.

"Under Chinese law, one should be given a criminal penalty if he or she illegally owns more than 20 military bullets, 1,000 pellets for air guns or 200 non-military bullets." -- https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/1903040562/

For more on how strict Chinese gun laws are see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China

> But if China does they better stop the illegal export of BBs and airsoft guns to the USA[...]

Manufacturing with an export license isn't the same as private ownership. You may be interested to know that the US exports a lot of arms you're not allowed to buy privately.

I'm curious as to why this is being downvoted; do people think it's untrue? Seems like it's very useful contextual information

I think there's a debate to be had around whether or not the plastic BBs are considered pellets for air guns.

I have a feeling the law is referring to the metal air rifle pellets, but I don't know that for a fact.

Typically, pellets for air rifles are made of metal: https://www.pyramydair.com/images/PY-P-1144_JSB-Diabolo-Exac...

"Airsoft" pellets are plastic beads: https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1AVsePVXXXXaQXpXX760XFXXXN/Air...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China

"In People's Republic of China, despite the common belief that airsoft is outright banned, the official stance on airsoft is that it is technically just "tightly controlled".[13] However, the control standards are so strict and the punishments are so heavy-handed, that involvement in the sport (regarded as "wargame" or "live action CS") is considered too impractical for common individuals in Mainland China."

"Law enforcement is also highly arbitrary, and many of the merchandises confiscated are actually either non-functional props or well below the replica limit"

> Law enforcement is also highly arbitrary

Sounds like Chinese law in a nutshell. Laws matter, when the CCP cares, sometimes, for some people.

> 1,000 pellets for air guns

Airgun pellets are not BBs. BBs are small lightweight plastic spheres. Airgun pellets are ammunition for airguns, they are usually moulded lead or a lead free alloy. Some pellets may be metal ball bearings, but usually that are shaped with a round or bullet like head and a flange at the back.

Search AliExpress.com. There are loads of sellers of plastic BBs. I doubt they are licensed. But there is notably no airgun pellets for sale!

BBs are metallic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB_gun

Airsoft is plastic. The goal is to shoot your friends with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft

Regardless of BBs vs airsoft, the article's tagline specifically states that whatever he was carrying is nonmetallic.

Yes I was talking within the context of the article and the parent I was replying to. Google airsoft BBs, and search aliexpress. The term BB is frequently used by manufacturers to refer to plastic BBs, at least within China and Taiwan.

Source: a friend is a major importer into the USA.

If only they cared that much about the illicit fentanyl production in their country. Oh wait, it isn't illicit, it is state-sanctioned.

I mean, not that China deserves to be defended on anything, but on that particular issue with the west, there's a bit of history there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War

The USA never exported opium to China.

>"Western traders, including those from the United States, had long sought a variety of Chinese products (including furniture, silk and tea), but found there were few products that China wanted from the West. American trade with China began as early as 1784, relying on North American exports such as furs, sandalwood, and ginseng, but American interest in Chinese products soon outstripped the Chinese appetite for these American exports. The British had already discovered a great market in southern China for smuggled opium, and American traders soon also turned to opium to supplement their exports to China. Beyond the health problems related to opium addiction, the increasing opium trade with the Western powers meant that for the first time, China imported more goods than it exported."

https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dwe/82011.htm

The US promoted the "Open Door" policy towards Chine, i.e. whatever traders of other nations could do, the US traders could also do.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt's family fortune was built from his grandfather Warren Delano Jr's opium smuggling business.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/28/opinion/the-opium-war-s-s...

Fuck fentanyl. It is a huge problem in America. I’m sick of hearing about people overdosing from this drug.

>Fuck fentanyl

the perspective that somehow it's the drugs fault is both damaging to the recovery effort, the effort to reduce harm to the general public, and damaging to those of us with chronic pain that find fentanyl to be a solution to their woes.

Point the blame where it belongs.

Fuck under-regulation, over-prescription, greedy doctors, broken medical systems, for-profit care, and systematic government abuse.

That line of thinking is also used to argue against gun control. “Don’t blame the guns”

But whether or not you subscribe to that thinking, most people can agree that it would be great if China stepped in to do something to control the illicit export of Fentanyl (keyword: illicit, as in not fentanyl used for legitimate medical purposes).

Why isn't there a Fentanyl problem in China, Europe, Africa ?

Are you SURE China has the ability to save america from under-regulation, expensive healthcare, for profit doctors etc ?

I’m not sure what you’re implying.

No, China controlling their fentanyl output won’t solve the problem in America. Making health insurance less expensive won’t solve the problem. Regulating more won’t solve the problem. Eliminating profit doctors won’t solve the problem.

But all of them would -help- contribute toward improving the situation.

China rescheduled fentanyl in response to Trump on May 1st. One month later: "Most fentanyl is now trafficked across US-Mexico border, not from China". Because Mexico is importing fentanyl precursors from China and taking over distribution like everyone predicted. Then a few days ago Virginia took down a multi-state drug ring and attributed 30kg of the fentanyl from Shanghai.

The cynic will think China is using this as a bargaining chip, but fentanyl is simply too easy to smuggle. US is failing to detect imports, think how much harder it is for China, the worlds biggest exporter to manage on the export end. Import and manufacturing control is a dead end when it comes to opiates, the chemistry is too basic and the logistics too easy.

Look at all the places where fentanyl isn't a problem for solutions. IMO, export control is the "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" (apart from Vancouver) tier thinking.

I think he was referencing specifically clandestine Chinese labs that make illicit fentanyl, not those who need it for chronic pain as it's prescribed.

Fentanyl is unusually deadly due to extreme concentration and ease of manufacture and transport. Other than exact dosage it’s very similar to other opioids.

Some interesting data: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-de...

Add lack of treatment, lack of criminal sanctions for companies pushing it, even after they learn of abuse.

China itself doesn't have fentanyl issue to start with. Nor other Asian countries.

Why is US singled out here? Can't US just ban it?

The US has a porous border. You can't stop drugs from crossing if you can't stop people from crossing.

Can't be any more porous than borders in Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Triangle_(Southeast_Asi...

China is right next to a major drug smuggling region. The jungles and mountains southwest of the country aren't exactly easy places to build border fences.

Well said. Fentanyl is the government's new cheerleader for the war on drugs.

As another person said, I wasn't really referring to people who need it for pain and are taking it with legal prescriptions.

I'm mad about all the people overdosing because their drugs were laced with Fentanyl without their knowledge - Mac Miller OD'd on fake oxycodone that contained Fentanyl[1]. Tom Petty and Prince also both died from fentanyl intoxication.

[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/us/mac-miller-death-arres...

on the other hand, it was just the ticket when i had all four wisdom teeth pulled last year!

You must be confused. Fentanyl is only given for long-term pain control (spanning months and years), never for temporary pain, and never given to anyone who is opiod naive.

Not true. Fentanyl is given for acute pain relief to mothers in labor. "No fentanyl" was in our birth plan, and we had our OB look at it before delivering, and her comment was "Realistically, you're not going to get addicted from the doses given in labor, and it gives the attending physician another option if needed, but if you really feel strongly about it..."

I was thinking about the outpatient setting (tooth extraction). Sure, in the hospital you can get fentanyl, Dilaudid, or practically anything.

I’m not confused. I still have the consent paperwork somewhere that lists the drugs; it’s part of the “conscious sedation” cocktail in some places, including at my oral surgeon’s office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_sedation_and_analge...

postoperative pain management consisted of tylenol and codiene, and I didn’t bother taking it anyway.

anyway, my point is merely that fentanyl has legitimate medical uses and that you can indeed have it administered in a medical setting without descending into opioid madness or overdose.

Sheesh. That seems like a strong drug to give someone who is getting teeth pulled. I had all four wisdom teeth pulled at the same time, and while I'm not sure what they gave me during the operation, I don't even remember taking hydrocodone at home afterwards. I think they just gave me some kind of lidocaine numbing solution and told me to take OTC pain meds.

i opted for the “conscious sedition” approach. IV meds and those 45 minutes went by reeeeal fast.

It’s more common to go with the novacaine local approach, and general anesthesia is very rare — normally when you have severely impacted or abcessed teeth and they need to cut into your jawbone and the like.

I read somewhere that fentanyl export from China is a long-term revenge plot in response to the flooding of their lands with opium. . . wish I could recall the source, probably a comment thread somewhere.

They should do that once the West pays reparations for the opium war.

"the West"

They DO care about the fentanyl production (or feeder chemical production) in their country -- that's why there's so much of it.

IMO I think it's both payback for the opium epidemic of the 1800s, as well as a deliberate effort by the PRC government to "kneecap" their #1 Strategic competitor in the 21st century via societal decay.

I reckon it's the same reason they bought Reddit. Poisoning the body and the mind.

They didn't "bough Reddit". Tencent has a non controlling stake.

The USA had nothing, AFAIK, to do with the opium epidemic. That was all on the UK.

Most of Teddy Roosevelt's wealth (the Delano fortune) came from Opium. So did the Coolidge (Thomas Jefferson's family), Sturgis, Low, Green, Forbes (John Kerry's family), & Russell family fortunes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_%26_Company

The trading roster for opium dealing in China is a who's who of who founded this country and funded ivy league schools.

I stand corrected.

They could have found “anything” in his bag. No reason to believe he was carrying anything at all.

Sounds like air-soft pellets. I imagine most are made in China.

Do you know for a fact that plastic BBs are not considered ammunition in China? That seems silly to me but I'm ready to believe it.

There really isn’t rule of law in China, so this question is really moot. The officials will make whatever modification to the law on the fly to suit their current political needs.

I read somewhere that the Chinese have laws that prohibit projectiles that can deliver certain levels of energy. I mean that not quite right as the gun fires the projectile, but it's possible they do consider this ammunition.

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