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Comment by downandout | Hacker News Reader

I'm a Verizon customer and the 60 day lock policy is clear on all the new iPhone marketing material from Verizon

If you read the thread, the guy bought the phone directly from Apple, as a new phone (not an upgrade), under the IUP. The phone had nothing to do with Verizon, Verizon financing, or any existing upgrade eligibility. He relied on Apple's representation that he was buying an unlocked iPhone, and received a locked one, apparently as part of Verizon's new policy.

Apple is selling locked Verizon iPhones while claiming they are unlocked. The fact that Verizon may choose to unlock them after 60 days doesn't negate that.

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I believe you are mistaken. It clearly states in the title and post that he purchased a Verizon version of the phone and not a factory unlocked version.

From Apple's point of view, the phone IS unlocked. However, since its tied to Verizon, the phone is carrier locked because of the FCC ruling, linked by another user.

This is a sucky situation and Apple could have made people aware of a Verizon policy that could influence their decision. However, in my opinion, the outrage is misplaced.

Incorrect. Apple asks users to select a carrier, however the site clearly states that all iPhones sold by Apple, including those under the IUP, are unlocked. That is a misrepresentation by Apple.

Many people buy the unlocked Verizon version of iPhones, regardless of their carrier, because only that specific version supports both CDMA and GSM. The issue is that Apple has not updated their website to reflect Verizon's 60 day policy. The thread clearly states that he bought the phone directly from Apple.

They ARE unlocked UNTIL you activate it with Verizon, in which case, Verizon's policy takes over. Apple is being truthful.

If the person purchased an Unlocked phone, in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue. If they purchased ANY version of the phone besides Verizon it is unlocked. Verizon is locked per carrier, not per Apple.

This is an important distinction.

The user stated they did not activate with a Verizon Sim before trying the t-mobile sim. Another user confirmed they had a similar issue only on their iUP that they ordered online, their in store version was unlocked even after activating with Verizon.

Apple's order page also clearly says all the version are unlocked except ATT Next. Apple apparently failed to update their site regarding the Verizon issue. That is Apple's fault, not the person.

According to the poster, at some point during the purchase, they logged into their Verizon account.

I’m guessing that’s the trigger that caused this but I’m not sure.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/warning-iphone-upgrade-...

At one point that was true but the past several generations (from 6 on I think) have only a single US SKU.

I read through that whole thread, and the concensus seems to be that this is still an issue. It appears that all of the phones now have the CDMA technology in them, however it is still only active on the Verizon and Sprint versions, because Apple must pay a patent royalty for each activated CDMA phone, and it does not want to pay that royalty for customers using GSM carriers.

Correcting my earlier statement which wasn’t generally true. When Apple was trying to pressure Qualcomm by using crappy Intel modems, those models did not support CDMA. The current “11” generation at least seems to be universal according to Apple but they don’t mention extra CDMA conditional licensing.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201296

> From Apple's point of view, the phone IS unlocked. However, since its tied to Verizon, the phone is carrier locked because of the FCC ruling, linked by another user.

I am reasonably confident that the lock is implemented by Apple. If Apple genuinely thinks the phone is unlocked, then it would be unlocked.

This is not correct. Verizon locks the phones themselves:

https://www.verizon.com/about/consumer-safety/device-unlocki...

> Devices that you purchase from Verizon are locked for 60 days after purchase. Devices that you purchase from our retail partners are locked for 60 days after activation. After 60 days, we will automatically remove the lock. Following the 60 day lock period, we do not lock our phones at any time.

You’re misunderstanding me. Imagine that you are a phone company. You buy a bunch of phones wholesale from various vendors, and you want to lock them. You can’t do this by loading a regular app on them that locks them, and you can’t do this by looking at the phone and saying “abracadabra”. You do it by using some protocol by which the vendor (Apple) allows you to control the lock state of the phone.

That protocol exists at Apple’s whim.

So because Apple has to implement it in order to sell to Verizon, it’s their fault? That’s basically victim blaming. Yes, Apple could not sell phones locked to Verizon, but then they wouldn’t be able to sell phones to Verizon.

Do you actually believe that Verizon would stop carrying iPhones if they couldn’t lock them? I don’t believe this for a second.

It’s kind of like arguing that that Verizon would only sell phones preloaded with Verizon crapware. This was partially true, but Apple stood up to them and everyone else quite successfully.

You’re also ignoring that the FCC requires Verizon phones to come locked for 60 days. Ostensibly to cut down on theft

Citation needed.

I can find plenty of evidence that the FCC permits a 60 day lock. I see no evidence whatsoever that the FCC requires it.

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