Comment by MarkMc | Hacker News Reader

Comment by MarkMc | Hacker News Reader

Traditional universities have 3 advantages over online course providers like Udacity, Coursera and Khan Academy:

1. They act as a coach: The professor and your peers expect you to attend lectures. The assignment is due by 5pm on Wednesday. If your performance isn't satisfactory you will be dropped from the course.

2. They get better feedback about their teaching. If half the students can't do the assignment on a particular topic, the professor can schedule catch-up lessons. Watching a group of students struggle with a question can give valuable insights about how to teach that topic effectively.

3. They act as a high-quality filter: Only high-quality applicants will be admitted to the university course, while anyone can pay $10 and start doing a Coursera course. The university also offers the opportunity to become part of a valuable alumni network.

(Some online bootcamps like Lambda also have these advantages because they insist on strict online attendance and are willing to drop students who don't put in the effort)

The 2nd point really resonates with me. I was reading this book called “Ultralearning” and feedback was one of the biggest points mentioned there. People who get prompt feedback can immediately use it to learn from experience. People who don’t have to keep guessing of what they’re doing is right or wrong.

I agree as well. I've noticed that most of my learning simply consists of a series of "trial and error" repeated.

I think most of these points are mostly debatable and can easily be solved through technology. Yes, there are positives to traditional universities but there are almost major negatives. It is simply unrealistic to think the system of massive student loan debts will be sustainable going forward.

1. Online coaching can be provided through video conferencing or similar. An online course perhaps could have the added benefit of allowing students to experiment with a subject. If they need to be forced into staying on track then they're probably not interested in the subject to begin with. They could also come back to the course at a later time when they're more motivated.

2. Adaptive algorithms can solve this problem and do it in real time.

3. A well crafted examination/certification can do the same for less money. See the accounting industry's certified public accounting exams or the legal industry's BAR exams.

Ultimately though, I see a hybrid system being created. If you want to take the traditional class, you can, for a fee. If you can self-study then you do the online course and only pay a much smaller fee plus any supplemental services you buy. Overall everyone wins.

>3. A well crafted examination/certification can do the same for less money. See the accounting industry's certified public accounting exams or the legal industry's BAR exams.

Only four states allow you to take the BAR exam without going to law school (edit: and good luck getting a good job without the law degree). The CPA exam requires either a Bachelors degree or 120 college credits to be taken.

So, in other words, your examples are in fact showing the exact opposite of what you think they do.

Is your argument that testing as verification can’t work or that it doesn’t because of social factors?

Outside the US and possibly Canada you can become a qualified accountant by examination and work experience without ever getting a degree in most of the English speaking world.

If you’re saying credentialism exists I doubt many would disagree, but just because a bad system is in place doesn’t mean a good one is impossible.

My argument was that I don't like people giving false or partial facts as evidence for their argument. You're making the mistake of assuming that because I point out the flaws in someone's argument I must disagree with them.

You are misinterpreting what I am trying to convey. For CPA exam/BAR exam, the exams are used as a way to verify that you have some level of understanding on a subject. There are multiple parts to actually becoming a lawyer/CPA. The first part is passing the required exams. The second part is meeting all the requirements.

What we need is a way for people to verify their knowledge. Take the exam, if you pass you get the certificate or similar. I am not talking about some sort of full blown professional certificate for every single profession. CPA/BAR exam was just an example obviously.

Also peer pressure sometimes can be a good thing. It could help you overcome fear and discover your true potential

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