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Comment by luu | Hacker News Reader

[The professor] once told me that even though the females are fairly quiet, and the boys in the class showed off a lot, when it came down to projects and exams, the female average was often higher

At his confirmation hearing, when Greenspan was asked why Townsend-Greenspan employed so many women (> 50%, compared to about 5% in finance at the time), he replied that since he valued women as much as men, but other firms didn't, he could get better work for the same money by hiring women. Are there any software companies doing the same thing today, and if not, why not?

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I don't think the opportunity to do that even exists. I haven't heard female engineers complaining that they can't get jobs. The problem is there there are so few looking for the jobs in the first place.

He may have just been more active about hiring women and provided an environment that was more appealing. I've turned down jobs before where I considered the environment hostile (for example, centerfolds on the wall, servers named after playmates - seriously!). Younger establishments and startups have been far more interesting for me to work at, so I avoided applying to companies who had an 'old-school' IT department.

I now run my own company and it's really hard to find women to hire as developers - out of every 100 resumes I might get one girl, who doesn't have the qualifications. I'm hoping to see that change over the years. I feel I need to help on that and do outreach, speak at highschool classes maybe.

> speak at highschool classes maybe.

I encourage people in the tech industry to look into doing this. I think it's important to take the opportunity to show people in schools some of the exciting and fun things we get to do on a daily basis.

Teachers can appreciate people from industry coming and talking about their experience with students.

> I've turned down jobs before where I considered the environment hostile (for example, centerfolds on the wall, servers named after playmates - seriously!).

And so they continue to have centerfolds on the wall and have their servers named after playmates.

That would have been a golden opportunity to change the system from the inside.

Starting those kinds of fights is not the best way for someone to find themselves in a welcoming work environment, and it's not the obligation of every woman to sacrifice her own career and happiness in order to fix unwelcoming companies.

The problem with women in engineering is not really in terms of jobs, but the fact that most women just do not choose the profession.

Women that do go into engineering and do well in school usually have no problems finding jobs.

I don't think the main problem is companies not valuing women, because it starts much earlier. University CS departments are tilted very heavily towards men (~10:1 at my school) so there are far, far fewer women graduating with CS degrees and entering the marketplace. If many companies have a similar ratio, it may reflect the availability of female programmers rather than any bias on their part.

Interestingly Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett's mentor had a similar problem, he was Jewish and none of the firms on Wall Street would hire a Jew, so he had to start his own firm.

Right. No Jews allowed in finance.

http://www.buffettsecrets.com/benjamin-graham-biography.htm

Somehow I suspect if you said something like,

"Enrico Caruso was Italian, and so couldn't find a job since none of the opera houses would hire an Italian..."

...the bullshit detectors would have tripped more readily.

What does that link show?

[he] took a job as a chalker on Wall Street with Newburger, Henderson and Loeb. Before long, his natural intelligence won out when he began doing financial research for the firm and he became a partner in the firm. He was soon earning over $500,000 a year, a huge sum; not bad for a 25 year old

Fyi, Jews have been prominent in finance since Joseph, at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs

The 'early life' segment from the wikipedia article about Benjamin Graham:

"Benjamin Graham was born Benjamin Grossbaum in London, England[1] to Jewish parents.[2] He moved to New York City with his family when he was one year old. After the death of his father and experiencing poverty, he became a good student, graduating from Columbia, as salutatorian of his class, at the age of 20. He received an invitation for employment as an instructor in English, Mathematics, and Philosophy, but took a job on Wall Street eventually starting the Graham-Newman Partnership."

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