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Comment by Ancalagon | Hacker News Reader

I know you were being funny, but I actually wholly agree with this statement. Every gun owner should have safes/locks for their guns.

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I was being serious. I don’t have a problem with responsible gun ownership.

Switzerland is a good model. The NRA loves to point at rates of Swiss gun ownership. If the USA implemented all of Switzerland’s gun laws I think you’d be okay.

If the USA implemented all of Switzerland’s gun laws, a citizen who passes a background check would be able to buy a newly-made full-automatic machine gun that is not allowed in the US outside of law enforcement or military. I’m not sure that is what you’re implying that you’d want.

He's saying he wants to have the 2nd amendment while simultaneously having sane gun laws that are also enforced.

Slippery slope arguments preclude judgement.

In Switzerland, people can not actually buy those guns, I don't think. They are issued by the military to pretty much everybody, that's true -- but they are kept on base these days, not at home.

One of the big differences between US gun culture and Swiss gun culture is that in the US we believe in a certain right "to enjoy arms", to keep and bear them in an undisciplined and disorganised way.

Other big differences are identity and profit motive.

Profit motive?

> If the USA implemented all of Switzerland’s gun laws, a citizen who passes a background check would be able to buy a newly-made full-automatic machine gun that is not allowed in the US outside of law enforcement or military.

But they wouldn't get access to the ammo needed to use those guns, which are stored in a central community location to combat an unwanted suicide problem (and aren't they semi-auto anyways?).

They also aren't bought, but part of ones' militia service. You know, that first clause of the USA's 2nd amendment that the pro gun lobby says to ignore.

The people are the militia. The first clause of the 2nd amendment doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Good article on this:

https://www.mic.com/articles/24210/gun-control-myth-the-seco...

The Swiss militia is setup to protect the country from foreign invaders. The 2nd amendment was setup exactly for this same reason, as the founding fathers were thinking about the British when they wrote it.

Of course, the text is vague enough that everyone will simply draw out whatever meaning they find reinforces their biases. Given that the most fervent upholders of the amendment today were draft dodgers back in the day, it is safe to say that protection of country is no longer important in their reading of the amendment.

At any rate, even if we accept that the clause is prefatory, that doesn’t make it meaningless, it has an effect on how gun rights should be maintained (so that the populace can overthrow the government or protect against foreign invaders, it is not protected for self defense, sport hunting, target practice, etc...).

"If the USA implemented all of Switzerland’s gun laws, a citizen who passes a background check would be able to buy a newly-made full-automatic machine gun that is not allowed in the US outside of law enforcement or military."

There are several things wrong with the above statement ...

First, in many (most) states of the United States, you can indeed purchase a fully automatic weapon / suppressor / grenade launcher / "destructive device" / etc. You'll have to pay a $200 transfer tax, submit to registration and fingerprinting and either get local CLEO signoff (Sheriff, Chief of Police) or purchase as a trust. Interestingly, you also sort of give up your fourth amendment rights as you grant the BATF right to check on the "device" at any time, for any reason.

Second, military (automatic) weapons in Switzerland are distributed by the Swiss Army and are kept in local possession under those auspices. A swiss cannot simply walk into a gun shop and buy an MP5 on a whim - regardless of background check.

Finally, and most importantly, Swiss gun laws were dramatically reworked in the past year as part of a general normalization of Swiss and EU regulations. There was a referendum and it passed - many aspects of Swiss gun laws that you may romanticize are now a thing of the past.

>First, in many (most) states of the United States, you can indeed purchase a fully automatic weapon..

This is being dishonest. Since the registry was closed in '86 there have been no additional automatic weapons added to circulation (for civilian owners) so prices start around $10k. They are basically unobtainable for people who don't have $10k to drop on a hobby and don't want to commit a felony with a coat hanger.

I like most of your answer, but didn't like that you silently dropped "newly-made" from the OP's criteria. You're welcome to argue that it doesn't matter, and just as welcome to argue that this is a good thing, but it seems odd to avoid mentioning that there is no legal way for a US citizen to purchase a fully automatic weapon manufactured after 1986 --- and that guns not subject to this ban are in very short supply and thus very expensive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

You are correct - I did indeed miss the "newly-made" qualifier.

For the sake of argument, however, a brand new rifle chassis mated with an RDIAS seems to fit the bill, yes ?

Then the USA should also enact obligatory military service. So that everyone would know how to use those guns. And see them as a grave responsibility, not just a right.

IMO every high school should be teaching first aid, gun safety, etc.

Normalisation of guns is part of the problem.

Is it? Because they’re already everywhere and statistically speaking there’s a level of responsible ownership that qualifies as statistically perfect (> 99.99).

With the level of saturation, not providing safety education is the most irresponsible course.

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