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Comment by StevePerkins | Hacker News Reader

Oh come now.

Judaism as an identity class has a lot more to it than mere religious affiliation.

I have to suspect that if the representation were 0.5x, rather than 5x, then its consideration would strike you as more natural.

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Agreed, I know at least a dozen atheist Jews who are Jewish ethnically (Sephardic / Ashkenazi) / culturally, but not religiously.

I mean grouping Jews together based on a religious affiliation is just weird -- Reform would look at you really funny if you start talking to them about how Hasids and Orthodox view the world. It is as if Christianity was compressed into Amish, Anabaptists and Catholics and someone said "they are the same people"

It is ultimately a response to the fact that Jews were treated as the same people by policies designed to exclude them. There were no such policies for various Christian groups.

Practically for much of this history in this part of the world, "Jewish" has been used interchangeably with Ashkenazi. Jewish is not an ethnicity, but Ashkenazi is, and most of the Jewish people at a place like Harvard (or applied-but-denied) have been Ashkenazi. Note this paragraph is descriptive, not normative: this conflating of Jewish and Ashkenazi is a way by which other Jews (many of which face even more racial discrimination) get erased from discourse.

> Jewish is not an ethnicity, but Ashkenazi is

This is, to put it mildly, an opinion rather than an established fact. Ethnicity is a social construct, and many Jewish societies do construct an ethnicity that crosses the intra-Jewish Ashkenazi/Sephardi/Persian/etc. lines.

The biggest example of this is of course Israel, but you also see this in other mixed-background Jewish communities like e.g. Los Angeles or France, where a single umbrella Jewish ethnic identity is overlaid on top of those more specific ones.

When I'm in the United States, about half the time, I pray with a Chabad Minyan. About half the people there are not Ashkenazi, despite Chabad's Ashkenazi origins. We have Persians, Yeminites, Ethiopians, Syrians, etc, and people whose families have lived in greater Israel area for generations.

If you don't mind my asking, where in the US is this Chabad minyan?

Silicon Valley

Your point is taken. But, I think there's consensus that the term "Jewish" doesn't unambiguously refer to an ethnicity, because one common definition is that Jewish refers to a religion. Orthodox Judiasm confers full "Jewishness" on Orthodox converts, and most ethnicity definitions have to double-check with one's birth / blood relatives.

There is a belief that many of the "Jewish" ethnic groups form one nation (Zionism tends to hold this) and I suppose there are people who extend that to a broader definition of "ethnicity."

"Ethnicity" is more similar to tribal identities - there are usually ways of entering the group, which can be well- or ill-defined. See for example the traditional initiation ceremonies of many Native American tribes for non-members, or the recently-constructed avenues for Soviet-era Russian immigrants and their descendants to join the Baltic ethnicities. In the reverse direction, Halpulaar'en consider those who have shifted to speaking Wolof to have left the ethnic group. (Note, though, that they are usually not then considered by the Wolof to have entered their ethnic group, creating a serious social problem.)

To continue the example of Zionist ideology, even secular Zionists consider converts to be Jews, and many consider converts to non-Jewish religions to have exited the tribe. Non-Jewish immigrants and their descendants who speak Hebrew as a native language may or may not be considered members depending on the person.

> There were no such policies for various Christian groups.

Say what? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism#United_States

Are Chinese Jews, Jews?

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