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Comment by carapace | Hacker News Reader

I'm an old-school fringe aficionado. I wish I could express to you how weird it feels that, first, MKUltra turned out to be real, and second, knowledge of it is going mainstream.

It is fucking fascinating watching y'all go through the psychic gyrations induce by confrontation with this knowledge. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Welcome to the flip side my friends. Pull up a lawn chair and pop some popcorn, everything you know is wrong, and things only get stranger from here on out. Just remember, if you see strange lights in the sky run like hell.

(Or just close the tab, click away, lower the curtain and forget the strange little man you saw, the Wizard of Oz is talking. He is so important and powerful you know.)

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Please explain. Hurting our fellow human being by torturing them in different ways like 'stress positions' as discussed on around this article is pretty different than mystical space ships coming. Yes, the us gave lsd to people to see what would happen. It's terrible. Also the us kidnapped teenagers all of the world who were accused of being terrorists and tortured them in black prisons, on my behalf, and I hate that. So what is the next step you forsee happening know that more people know about this?

This used to be in the same category as bigfoot and UFOs, now it's written up in major media. For a lot of people that makes it harder to dismiss which leads to serious "cognitive dissonance". That's what I find fascinating to watch: society going through the process that I went through as an individual to come to terms with what happened.

If cognitive dissonance happens on a wide enough scale to enough people simultaneously all kinds of weird stuff can happen. As the mind recalculates and recalibrates belief systems new information has a chance to take hold. (E.g. the Reformation; or the founding of USA, there are more new religions in the US than the rest of the world combined.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_movements_th...)

I have no idea what will happen from this particular revelation.

I wouldn't categorize this as being too similar to bigfoot and UFOs. There is a lot of strange things the government and society does at large that is similarly substantiated,but still ignored by society at large though (the human-cow embryo experiments performed in the UK come to mind when thinking about oddities in the world)

Operation Northwoods Gulf of tonkin Operation blue book The Lavon Affair Lisuitania The banning of hemp by paper manufacturers Pearl Harbour was planned Reichstag burning 9/11(2 planes, 4 buildings) Cecil Rhodes and his round table: steering world policy since 1895 Standard oil still exits and owns every strategic resource in the world.

Look all that shit up, and see if you will still defend your gorvenment.

Buy vintage newspapers or use primary sources not fucking snopes or Wikipedia

Whats wrong with wikipedia? I've heard of many of those events and checked out those things and there were entries for those things at wikipedia.

just because people passionately believe things doesn't make them true. there are 1000s of videos and clear evidence of planes hitting the buildings on 9/11 for example, plus 1000's of people saw it.

Johnson was trying to get the war in vietnam kicked off. People knew about it later and didn't care.

Sigh. Why do you mention religion? That is the largest disinformation of all to me. No matter which.

By that i don't even mean to disregard anything supernatural, spiritual, or whatever is above our current understanding of the ways in which nature works.

I just feel that any organized religion is a form of totalitarian gatekeeping.

Imagine for example some dystopic society where for whatever reason there is only one fast food provider with a limited menu available. While fruits and berries do exist outside of the walled ghettos, but nobody dares to go there, because FORBIDDEN.

That is what every religion, church, sect, cult is to me. Some asshole saying this is and countless drones repeating it for all eternity, which is not making it so, just an annoying loud drone instead.

Call it memetic pollution.

Ah my lad, come to Church

http://subgenius.com/

I'd rather not.

[1] https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UOnDNNJlRUo/VIBMCIzyr6I/AAAAAAAAO...

Suit yourself.

[1] I don't know what that is.

> everything you know is wrong

"MK Ultra is real therefore every other fringe conspiracy theory is too" feels like dubious logic to me, to say the least.

It is dubious logic and I'll thank you not to attribute it to me.

- - - -

The point of that phase is to shake up your beliefs to let in new information, not to let your brain fall out. In any event, there is much weirder stuff happening in the world than MKUltra. Like purple telepathic space dolphins.

You've been on too many candy-flipping trips in Laos. Get a grip.

Dude you don't know me. Be civil or fuck off.

Purple telepathic space dolphins?? Can you elaborate?

http://www.matrixenergetics.com/

Relatively benign non-physical "aliens" that have teamed up with this guy to ... I don't know what. They're fun and they help people learn to heal themselves and others and they don't seem to be trying to start a cult or anything crummy like that.

I attended one of his seminars and it was worthwhile IMO but it was a mixture of profound stuff and total bullshit (again, IMO.) One way to describe it would be "New Age faith healing" but that's not quite right.

FWIW, I did see them (or at least hallucinate them) and they do look like purple dolphins. In re: telepathy, everything is telepathic (including you, you are pretending not to know it for the sake of the show.)

When you say “going” mainstream... it’s been in popular fiction for at least decades (e.g. The X Files in the 90s).

Exactly. It was in "X-Files" and now it's in the Wikipedia.

The epistemological status has changed in the last couple of decades. I'm hardly in touch with the mainstream zeitgeist but is seems very recent to me.

"Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975" - the OP. A NYTimes article from 1977[0] talks about mind control, LSD experiments, covert partnerships with doctors, secret funding, etc. A contemporary source from Wikipedia uses the name MKUltra. What information emerged since 1977?

Are you just saying many more people know about it now, even though it's been public for decades? (Maybe this is because of X-Files etc.) Were you around in the 60's when perhaps there were rumors but no public confirmation?

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/1977/08/02/archives/private-institut...

> Are you just saying many more people know about it now, even though it's been public for decades?

Pretty much. I wasn't around in the 60's or 70's so I can't really tell you what reaction was like then but by the mid-90's if you talked about it you were a "tinfoil hat" wearer.

I talked about it in the 90s and the only tin foil hat accusations were against those who used it as a jumping board for fantasizing about conspiracy theories. It’s the same with any juicy fact involving the government - there’s a core of truth which is widely accepted, surrounded by a halo of speculation generated by people who want to believe they are party to secret knowledge.

> I talked about it in the 90s and the only tin foil hat accusations ...

To whom? Where? I sure as hell never met anybody who was willing to discuss it.

> It’s the same with any juicy fact involving the government

What is it" in that sentence? MKUltra?

> there’s a core of truth which is widely accepted, surrounded by a halo of speculation generated by people who want to believe they are party to secret knowledge.

Would you say that statement characterizes the situation around MKUltra?

Uh, there's been an MKUltra entry on Wikipedia since 2002: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_MKUltra&o...

I first learned of mkultra in the novel Charlie, in 1990.

I learned about it 10 years ago (while I was in university) in a Stuff You Should Know episode, which is a pretty popular/mainstream podcast.

As a seasoned traveler, any advice for how to navigate in the strange new world?

Well, as the Cat said to Alice...

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?

The Cheshire Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to.

Alice: I don't much care where.

Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.

Alice: ...So long as I get somewhere.

Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.

Where do you want to navigate to?

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