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Comment by Robotbeat | Hacker News Reader

Indeed. It'd be nice to see a coordinated effort to welcome and resettle the refugees. A pro-active program that is a pan-ethnic, almost nationalistic to add these refugees to the EU economic and cultural might, with education on local customs and languages and other help in integration.

Call the bluff.

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I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic or just extremely naive wishful thinking. Could you provide at least one example of a successful such program?

America.

This is a very bad example. America is a completely different story as it is a stitched up nation (for lack of better words) from it's very inception and the societal and cultural dynamics are very different from those in Europe. Please don't try to force American solutions to non-American problems.

Furthermore, the US currently is a lot more xenophobic and less accepting of foreigners than Europe is. I'd even go as far as say that in my experience Americans in general tend to be more racist than Europeans as well. And let's not forget USA's far from spotless historical record of treatment of minorities and other groups deemed to be 'different'.

There's no fundamental reason why America's ability to integrate cultures couldn't be replicated in Europe. It's just a cultural choice not to. There's not any excuse for it.

Just like the current xenophobic attitudes among some in the US is a choice and was a choice in the past. None of this is excusable, none of it is inevitable. And I have little patience for "realists" who carry water for the idea that xenophobia is inevitable and unchangeable.

And not that it matters to the discussion of whether it's inevitable or not, but Americans are more welcoming of immigrants: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/business/international/fo... and have lower demonstrated racism than most of Europe: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...

Wait - America is almost entirely peopled with folks from other countries. What magical transformation occurred when they moved to a different continent, that made Americans suddenly different? Our solutions are not somehow incompatible with European people, since many of us are, originally, from there.

And forget the anecdotal data. The bulk of Americans interact with folks from all around the world, daily, with little issue. America's a big place, and its easy to cherry-pick news reports to get any impression you like.

Here's some data: racism by demonstrated tolerance. America is at the bottom of the list:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...

I wanted to reply "Wasn't it mostly while it was sparsely populated and expanding?", but decided to check numbers first. You are right!

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017/tab...

Again, a very different situation. First of all, these numbers are still very minuscule compared to the total population and territory of the USA - for example the UK alone accepted a little over 200k non-eu immigrants in 2018.

Secondly, these new citizens are truly multicultural, as they literally come from every part of the globe - opposed to the refugees coming into the EU who are mostly from a middle eastern cultural origin. Because of this new immigrants coming into the US rarely have the luxury of arriving in a group of people similar to them so they are pretty much forced to assimilate.

Lastly, the geographical position of the US and their immigration policies allow them to be able to sift through the millions of applicants and pick the cream of the crop. Winning the dv lottery is not unconditional - it's only the first step in a series of screenings and checks one needs to undergo before he's even approved to become an american citizen. This is the polar opposite of the migrant situation in Europe where millions of people are simply passing through county borders without barely any supervision or control.

The idea that "new immigrants coming into the US rarely have the luxury of arriving in a group of people similar to them" is wrong both currently and historically.

This is making excuses for a cultural choice.

America is successful only if you consider constant low key domestic conflict and much gnashing of teeth and whataboutism successful. They're powerful worldwide despite all of this.

Only because we limit numbers so assimilation is a necessity. The numbers of refugees to citizens is much higher in Europe, enough so that you get entire neighborhoods full of refugees instead of just refugees intermingled with the local population.

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