Google Removes Kongregate App from Android Market | Hacker News Reader

Google Removes Kongregate App from Android Market

venturebeat.com

35 pointsjim-greer43 comments

Wow, what a stupid decision. How is Kindle not an "app store"? How is a web browser not an "app store"?

Dear Google: if you start censoring stuff now, then you will have to "take credit" for all of the shit on the Marketplace that you haven't removed yet.

Mind boggling.

Arguably this is the -primary- purpose of neither of these apps. One directly allows the display and reading of books, whilst the other is primarily for, uhhh, browsing the web. The Kongregate app was much more clear-cut in providing a distribution method for Flash games which could have run without the Kongregate framework.

That's a mighty-fine hair to split. Don't you actually have to buy books from Amazon in order to read them?

I don't doubt it's a fine line (though only for Kindle), but I do think it's at least arguable that as intrinsic as the store is to the product, the Kindle app is better described as "reads books" rather than "sales books". Of course, it would be trivial to split that either way: but the Kongregate app appears at least somewhat more on one side of the definition.

I thought Kongregate's apps were all free, ad-supported flash games? It's been a while since I've used the service though.

They mostly are, although there's some that have virtual goods using their Kreds system.

The best part about Kongregate is they share the revenue with developers - when they do the big campaigns like the Dragon Age one last year developers were getting $4 - $5 per 1000 plays!

Everything in this app is/was free.

And pay WSJ to read it? (and potentially hulu for hulu plus, etc. etc.)

How is Kindle not an "app store"? How is a web browser not an "app store"?

Websites and ebooks aren't apps?

I'm going to side with Google on this one (though I might change my mind in the future). Two reasons:

1. Kongregate can distribute it's app outside the app store, though I hear you guys about AT&T blocking apps outside the store. I might take this off my list if Google starts doing more evil down the road.

2. The main reason: Kongregate is free to bundle each of those games as a separate app and put them on the store. The lawyers can argue all they want about whether the Kongregate app violates the TOS by being an app store, but certainly it violates the agreement in spirit.

Has anyone here dealt with the WildTangent client? It does roughly what the Kongregate app is designed to do, but on Windows. It lives in memory and tries to download new games at regular intervals. Frankly, it gets annoying.

Honestly, this smells like Kongregate is trying to push shovelware along with their legitimate games. If Google lets them put their games up but not their magic Kongregate App, that seems legitimate--especially if Kongregate is allowed to make their Bonzi Buddy^H^H client app available outside the market.

Anyone care to explain why I'm wrong?

I really dislike spammy, bloatware like Wild Tangent too. Our app is not like that, give it a try. It doesn't download anything without you're permission and doesn't pester you.

On 1) agreed, that alone is one of the reasons I really prefer Android. But the dialog you have to check to install non-market apps is pretty scary.

As for 2) give the app a try - I think you'll see for this kind of content a rich browsing experience is much nicer than the Android Market.

Fair enough, I haven't tried the app--I don't own a smartphone at the moment.

BTW, might I ask when Kongregate is planning to support html5 games? :-)

Didn't see this - we already support HTML5 games (via an iframe). We've gotten very few submissions though.

I have a question:

Why is it that anytime google is involved, their actions have to be characterized as either "good" or "evil"?

When other companies commit even horrifically unsavory actions, no one calls them evil. We may call for their prosecution, or say that they're being monopolistic or unfair but the terminology is at least descriptive and not moralistic.

Their fault. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil

While I'd prefer that Google didn't pull this move, you still can very easily download it from Kongregate themselves.

If your phone supports installing applications from unknown sources, yes.

Don't all android phones have that option in the settings?

AT&T removes that ability in their phones, although you can still install non-market apps using tools from the Android SDK.

Expect all operator subsided phones to have that usability removed and only amazon market enabled soon.

It's not like the users will complain, if operators still in business até any indicator.

But I digress. The point here it's google position with market control. Do they endorse all family guy and simpsons jigsaws? Fox could easily sure them since they showed to have power to enforce policies, but decide to keep gaining money when it comes to somebody elses copyright

Nice tip! While not quite as easy as the marketplace, it's still painfully easy to download and install. (I think I was up and running in...30 seconds or so?)

Performance of all the games seem pretty good. This is a great idea IMHO.

Sad I won't be able to enjoy either of these two things (download arbitrary apps and installing them, playing flash games) on my iPhone.

This is not a good sign. I went Android to avoid these kind of practices. At least I can still sideload. Does anyone have an apk for it?

http://www.kongregate.com/android

Why would you ever sideload on an Android device, where you have a full-featured internet browser to download apks?

"sideload" now means "install through any means other than the app store".

This was brilliant.

If Kongregate had just blogged "Hey, look at our new Android app", they would have gotten a little press and a few downloads.

Release in the Market and GET KICKED OUT OF THE MARKET ... BOOM - tons of great press and now people are eager to see what's so great that Google had to kick them out!

Pure marketing awesomeness (hopefully).

Seriously. It's not like it was a secret that this type of app wasn't allowed in the Android Market. It's right there in the distribution agreement, plain as day.

I really think, intentional or not, this was a great move that got way more attention than had they just made an announcement on their blog.

The clause itself (http://www.android.com/us/developer-distribution-agreement.h...) reads:

"4.5 Non-Compete. You may not use the Market to distribute or make available any Product whose primary purpose is to facilitate the distribution of Products outside of the Market."

Is there a definition of "Products" that includes Flash games but does not include music and e-books?

I'm sure Amazon has a separate agreement with Google.

From the same document:

Products: Software, content and digital materials created for Devices in accordance with the Android SDK and distributed via the Market.

No idea what "In accordance with the Android SDK" means, and that doesn't seem to apply to anything not otherwise available on the "Market".

Guys, guys – it's fine. Let us not forget: Android is open. So clearly there's nothing to be looked askance at here. We're not looking at it from the right perspective or something.

Snark aside, I'd be happy if Google used their muscle to make things better for the end user, then found ways to profit from that superior experience. This is how they got their start. These days they're like a corporate zombie: relentless, surprisingly strong and seemingly bereft of any guiding ideals or purpose.

Under this reasoning, shouldn't Gameboid and similar emulator apps that provide functionality for downloading and playing multiple games be pulled from the marketplace too? Also, I have a gripe with the article itself:

> the flash games are cached inside the Arcade app, not directly downloaded and saved

How is caching not "directly downloading an saving the game"? Other than being occasionally pruned, it's the same thing.

Really dick move by Google. Kongregate are awesome and they put a lot of work and valuable real estate on their front page into making the Arcade.

It's a big win for Google to allow it, but I guess they prefer the official way for Flash games to get onto the marketplace - stolen or cloned by fuckwits.

Direct Link to app file: http://cdn2.kongregate.com/assets/files/0000/1998/Kongregate...

Silly move. As noted it's not a big deal because you can easily get the app directly (unless you were foolish enough to buy an Android phone from AT&T), but if Google is going to pull this one I wish they'd also do something about the thousands of spam apps on the Market.

Joystiq has more info here: http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/19/kongregate-ceo-jim-greer-o...

Joystiq has some more of my commentary on this and technical details:

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/19/kongregate-ceo-jim-greer-o...

i wonder what google is going to do when amazon launches their app store with it being a _literal_ app store in every sense.

Amazon have already said that their store won't be available on the Market, and will have to be downloaded directly from their website.

Never gonna be in the Android Marketplace. Either Amazon is going to release on their site and in what it probably their end game, work with OEMs and carriers to have it preinstalled.

hah! Sounds like Google is turning into an Apple.

that's a little bit of a stretch to be claiming this. Not saying it's not a shitty move just that they need another 5000+ shitty moves to be like apple.

Why do we pile on with a dozen threads when Apple makes one shitty move, but say that we won't pile on google unless they make "5000+" shitty moves?

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