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Comment by tonyedgecombe | Hacker News Reader

It's pointless expecting corporations do make those sort of sacrifices, it would be economic suicide.

Didn't pressure work for companies in South Africa? Didn't pressure work for catching dolphins in fish nets? Note I have no idea if those were effective. I was too young to know. I just remember lots of talk about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Apartheid_Movement

https://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/united-states-cons...

It's only economic suicide because people don't expect those "sacrifices". The market doesn't value ethics on its own, it has to be made to value it - by things like public expectations, customer pressure, or regulations.

If a company chooses to heavily invest in a nation with limited freedoms, the suicide started when the decision was made. Not when the consequences start to hurt.

Yep, the idea that companies should be given a free pass to act with utter amorality because they put themselves in a situation where they are obliged to do so is ridiculous.

I very much doubt it would be suicide, it'd be an economic inconvenience. But even that cause hell to freeze over for their stock holders even if the loss was only momentary.

Publicly held companies will rarely choose the good of the public over the good of their stockholders unless given fiscal incentives through tax increases or tax decreases.

Unless they become as wealthy as Bill Gates and make a non-profit with their enormous wealth.

Given that I don’t see ANY large companies that don’t manufacture or assemble in China, especially electronics, I don’t see how one can claim it would not be economic suicide.

Consumers have chosen their priorities, and they’re only able/willing to spend a little bit extra for a better product. They’re not going to spend that much more for more expensive labor too.

Interesting that you attempt lay some blame for the situation on consumers who have "chosen their priorities"

That is absurd. Consumers have absolutely no choice in the matter other than the most unpractical "avoid using modern electronics"

They did at some point in the past. Large portions of the US manufacturing and textile sector disappeared because people opted for the cheaper imported items. I don’t see any reason to assume they would be willing to pay more for labor now either.

With increasingly depressed wages I do wonder at what point counterproductive choices become self reinforcing. Such as buying the cheapest even if it's long term cost is higher until there are no other options.

I wonder if that has anything to do when flattening wages over the same period. I wonder if that has anything to do with trade and economic policy. Or you could just chalk it up to individual consumer choices (and their crazy preference for cheaper goods suddenly and magically on offer) if you'd rather not think much.

Apple products have always been premium items that people choose to pay more for.

Apple could have simply raised their prices to account for differences in domestic manufacturing costs or swallowed the cost with decreased profit margins.

Do you have any numbers on how much they would have to raise prices? Why would they already not be charging as high a price as they think their customers are willing (or able) to pay?

Samsung announced a few weeks ago to move all its (phone) manufacturing outside China:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-china/samsun...

Yes, and it’s going to Thailand and Vietnam and India, where the cost of inputs is cheapest (including dealing with government, the costs of which are going up in China).

Thailand No. It's mostly Vietnam -- and India possibly in near future. Sure, the wage is much lower in Vietnam, but the downside was that the country was known for low-cost textile and toys production until Samsung came along. There was literally no infrastructure for electronics production to speak of in those days and the company not only had to work with the gov't to build it from scratch, but also had to convince 200+ suppliers and contractors to move along with them.

Samsung is already gone. Samsung had foresight and is well diversified. The company started packing up and moving to Vietnam at their peak in China back in 2013. Most of their smartphones now come from Vietnam (and Samsung's Vietnam operation alone accounts for 1/4 of all export from Vietnam).

> Samsung had foresight and is well diversified

By moving from one communist dictatorship to another communist dictatorship.

from one man commie dictatorship that poses one political and economical threat to a one party commie dictatorship that poses no such risk. This is no brainer.

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