Amazon to Roll Out Grocery Delivery Service
mashable.com
mashable.com
Am I the only one who checked the date on the article after seeing that?
When Webvan died I literally had to buy a car for the first time. It was like I'd been part of an advanced civilization that collapsed. Seriously, they should've tried charging higher prices before they gave up.
Curious what dynamics influence grocery stores from different regions to adopt tech with such varying levels of hesitation.
Even now I've got past the "unidentified item in the bagging area" stage, it's still slower than having them swipe them through for you ...
So basically a big thumbs down.
The thing I keep thinking is both WebVan and HomeGrocer blew threw billions and eventually imploded (WebVan bought HomeGrocer and then Amazon bought WebVan and re-purposed it as a regular online store). The argument always given was that grocery margins are already razor thin so a company that delivers groceries can't make enough to stay alive.
So maybe that's how Amazon is surviving in Seattle right now. Offering a great convenience at a premium price.
Unfortunately, WebVan scared anybody off from making a serious investment in it, even though they never actually invalidated the market. If anybody can make it work, it will be Amazon; and if they start succeeding, I can't imagine it will take long for Walmart to follow.
Amazon already has all of the technical infrastructure they need, so it's just a matter of keeping the storage and transportation costs down (e.g. not spending a billion dollars on a warehouse).
I like eating well+healthy and spending 20 minutes every couple days to buy fresh products seems like a small investment in both my body and wallet. There are things that having money is supposed to help us sweep under the rug - I'll never move anything bigger/heavier than a box from one house to another again. Nutrition shouldn't be one of those things. Nutrition and health should be one of those things that having all the spare money/time lets us get more, not less, involved in. The investment is moreso important if you have a family.
The fundamentals of nutrition, say how to pick a melon or how to understand nutritional labels, is as lacking as the fundamentals of personal finance. These delivery services can do well by specific groups (say the elderly), but in general, I worry that they'll make us further ignorant about nutrition.
To me, this sounds like a step in the right direction.
This means you can do the same research as I imagine many of us do in the shop, from your browser, during the purchase process - and in something of a more structured way.
I recently decided that it's the best and surest way to explain my eating habits to other people. Using words like 'lipid hypothesis', 'good and bad cholesterol', 'insulin response' or even something as simple as 'paleo diet' just makes peoples' eyes glaze over.
Also, they have never taken back the bags I left out for them. They are great for toting around board games though.
Launching in tons of cities requires lots of distribution points.
Please read this: http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
However, taxes are not robbery, they're commerce ("the trading of something of economic value such as goods, services, information, or money between two or more entities"), because - in theory, at least - you're paying money to the government in exchange for useful things (roads, public services, enforced order, and so forth). If you think that the state can't responsibly spend it (I feel like the country as a whole spends money a lot less responsibly than the state of California, but yeah), then you have four options: replace the government, reform the government, leave the government, or complain. Continuing to use the things that the state is providing to you without paying for them as the state has found reasonable is stealing, just as it would be stealing if I went to a restaurant and didn't pay for my meal.
Also, as an aside, I initially found it amusing that you (as a comparatively new user) were pointing a much older user at the welcome page; however, people must be reminded of the rules of discourse we operate under whenever they stray from them, despite how long they've been part of the community. Pointing him to the guidelines instead of the welcome page might have been slightly more appropriate, though. The rules there are much more concise, at least.
[1] All quotes from wikipedia.
There is a fifth option and it is perfectly moral: simply don't pay taxes. This is not stealing because you are not obligated to the terms of an agreement that you have not consented to. If I'm obligated to pay taxes, then you are obligated to pay me $100,000 for responding. Why? Because I said so. Think that is a pretty lame justification? You're right, and so it is with the state when they claim moral justification for demanding payment. The paltry "services" they provide generally don't benefit citizens (the police, for instance, spend their time defending the interests of the state, not the citizens)... they exist mostly as rationalizations for taking more money. EG: a state will levy a %1 tax to provide roads, a few years later, shift that money elsewhere, wait for the roads to go to hell and then say "we need to raise taxes in order to pay for the roads". They simply ignore that they already passed a tax for that purpose.
Here's a hypothetical: I am born into a house on a block with four other houses. My parents were forced by a bully to pay "property taxes" because he said "youse gotta mighty fine house here. Sure would be a shame if something were to happen to it, say, a fire, or even just "hooligans" breaking you windows..." When they died they left the house to me. Meanwhile the Bully put up a streetlamp that shines right into my bedroom window so he and his friends can play soccor in the street at night... the light and noise keeps me up at night.
Am I morally obligated to pay the bully protection money because he threatens my person or property with damage if I don't? I never signed a contract with the bully. Am I morally obligated to pay him because he "provides" a street lamp I do not want? The bully calls a vote of the other 3 houses on the block. They happen to be inhabited by the bullies friends. They all vote to raise the taxes on my house (but not theirs, of course.) Am I morally obligated to pay these increased taxes because there was an election (that I didn't participate in, but if I had, that wouldn't have meant anything, the election was rigged, as are all elections in the USA which prevent anyone but representatives of our one party government from running.)
I submit further, that because my parents paid taxes (or I might have in the past) that I have the right to whatever benefit of that street lamp because it is a paltry compensation when compared to the taxes I (or they) were forced to pay. But even if it isn't, I didn't agree to the streetlamp and thus am not morally obligated to pay for it.
When you see it on this level, only a few people, the morality, or rather, immorality of it is stark. It doesn't change by adding years of tradition and a lot more people being involved.
To the bully's friends, I'm "a fucking idiot" because they profit from me paying taxes. They expect to benefit out of proportion to their costs. (The reality is generally the opposite of course, but they aren't educated in economics, and their impression of the economics industry is filled with nonsense put forth by so called "experts" hired by the bully.) They know it is wrong to extort money from me, so they can't make an articulate argument, but they can call me names and vote me down, while voting the bully up.
You may genuinely believe that these "services" are valuable. In some cases I concede they have some value, but never close to their cost, and my personal perspective is that they have a negative net value on my life. Further, by providing them the government generally criminalizes any competition. It is illegal for anyone else to offer first class mail service. Do you think we're getting a great deal on our mail delivery in this monopoly situation?
But even if you are right and they are valuable, the lack of consent undermines any possible morality of taxation. I did not consent to taxation, I do not consent to these services, and I did not even consent to the existence of this government. I have no problem dealing with corporations who deal with me on a consensual basis. Sometimes I've felt ripped off, but I've taken my business elsewhere.
But I am continually amazed that people can see non-consentual relationships, backed up with the threat of violence as somehow "moral". I suspect that this is the purpose of government schools- they indoctrinate kids to believe government is somehow different and that the rules of morality don't apply to the actions of government. Certainly there wasn't a lot of critical thinking taught in the government schools I was forced to attend. (not much education either, so most of the education I've gotten that has economic value was self taught.)
I actually pay taxes, and I have relocated my ass and my business to a jurisdiction that I find more favorable. My only point here is to try and get you to see the immorality of the situation and thus the error in the rationalization that you've been given. Not that I think it will change anything if I convince you.
Your arguments aren't really historically valid (look up the history of private fire departments in large cities), nor are they factually based (look up the actual cost of public first class mail and the guarantees it gives you).
IMO, they aren't philosophically valid either, but that's just my opinion and people who are more compitent may disagree. The whole consent thing seems poorly justified. There are a lot of things we don't consent to in our lives. Our gender, our race, our lineage in general, the community of humans we are born into, the larger events that impact us that we may have no control over.
Even if you buy the consent argument, the answer to your dilemma is "easy".. move out of the locality that's taxing you to one that isn't. If you have to leave the country, oh well, that's your choice whether to be involved in a particular community. But this is just as "easy" as determining that taxation is theft because you don't like it.
So, there's no moral difficulty here, just the problem that you have to do something you would not rather do. Such is life.
From a policy position, I lived in both a low taxed country (Malaysia) and a high taxed country (Australia). I found Australia is well administered enough to give value for the taxes it collects, while not so in Malaysia.
I think it is hard for Americans to appreciate higher taxes because the public services are so lacking and there is so much ass hatness in government spending. For instance, the TSA is bad value for money.
On the brighter side of things, if you are paying taxes, thanks for NASA. It's awesome!
The vans Amazon has in Seattle are all ex-Home Grocer vans. In the early days it was very obvious, though they've repainted them more carefully now.
I suspect Amazon picked them up cheap after HomeGrocer imploded.
(If you get the regwall, try entering the URL into Google and clicking the first result)
Hot damn have I got my pom poms on for this.
I'm getting mighty sick of the small selection of mostly junk at my one neighborhood supermarket, not to mention trudging out there in the bitter cold, finding they're out of my favorite snack, rummaging to find the latest expiry date, waiting in the checkout line, scrambling to cram everything in my bag, aaaand awkward interactions with pimply teenagers.
If this existed, I would eat much healthier, tastier, and cheaper.
And presumably, once Amazon has their own daily delivery network, they'll use it to ship all their other stuff overnight for free.
C'mon, if we can deliver hot pizza in 30 minutes then we can do fresh groceries in 24 hours.
Webvan was an online "credit and delivery" grocery business that went bankrupt in 2001. [...] Webvan as one of the greatest dotcom disasters in history. [...] now owned and operated by Amazon.com.[1]
Previous HN discussions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1427668 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1877916
If Amazon can improve on Vons' clunky ordering process and other problems (limited selection, substituted items can be way off and can change the total price quite a bit sometimes, fruit/veggies are sometimes bruised or not fresh) and keep their costs down, I think they will probably have a good shot at making it work.
Note: in practice neither of these things is a small matter.
Might I interject a bit of rational skepticism here? What's the evidence behind this news, is there any? Or is it just an unfounded rumor promulgated by one website and picked up by others?
I'll just sit over here in the corner and watch this whole mess while I snack on a delicious bucket of popcorn.
Skepticism is merited here.
Amazon might be able to pull this off in some markets. It probably makes sense for folks with mobility issues.
I see it almost as an extension to mechanical turk.