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Comment by threeseed | Hacker News Reader

I find these type of articles hilarious because they treat EV cars as though they are a gaming PC where all that matters is specs. Completely oblivious to the fact that people don't buy cars based just on specs.

Intangibles like brand, design, experience, feeling, handling etc are often just as if not more important. For example no Porsche Taycan buyer is ever going to choose a Model 3/S just because it has a few extra kilometres of range.

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>> Intangibles like brand, design, experience, feeling, handling etc are often just as if not more important.

I think that's why the incumbents are having a hard time. They want to make an electric version of what they already have. It's probably easier to produce an EV that was designed to be electric from the start. If that's the case, the problem may be one of commitment. Tesla is committed - they only make electric cars.

Most of the newer EVs have been built from scratch.

And are in fact now being shared amongst the various groups as standardised architectures e.g. Porsche/Audi, Polestar/Volvo, Rivian/Ford.

It is notable that Porsche didn't try to create an electric 911 or Cayman. Despite there being a multitude of different version of 911s (Normal, Turbo, GT3 etc.) they (presumably) realised that an electric car was going to be fundamentally different. Different internal layout, different handling, so they started again.

Incumbents are only having a hard time because they want to be profitable. If they were willing to lose $20 billion they could've sold a lot more EVs by now.

> For example no Porsche Taycan buyer is ever going to choose a Model 3/S just because it has a few extra kilometres of range.

Would you be willing to expand on this? The reason I ask is that there are plenty of ex-Porsche (and ex-BMW) owners over at TMC and /r/teslamotors. Are they the minority, or are the brand loyalists the minority?

Not OP but my guess is that Tesla has a "cool, new, hip" factor that has more to offer than Porsche, which is your dad's high end luxury vehicle.

It depends on how much the range difference is at the end of the day, and if you trust Tesla or Porsche more to deliver on future battery tech (not talking about a Tacyan vs. Model S comparison, but a company vs. company comparison).

Tesla has a large advantage in this that is at least partially in house (judging from their willingness to expand production from Panasonic to LG and now CATL).

1. Porsche Taycan charges significantly faster than any Tesla so batteries/range isn't as useful an advantage.

2. You completely missed the point. Porsche drivers aren't looking for an economical car just as Hyundai drivers probably won't find much use for a dash stopwatch.

I wasn't comparing the Taycan with the Model S. The real issue is Tesla vs VAG. Tesla can be out competed now on the Model S and still win out. Porsche/VAG may not have the same luxury.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions/germ...

Also, Porsche owners absolutely do care about range, but that's a different argument all together.

I guess it depends on how you define "range". How long will it take to drive across five states in a Tesla Model S as compared to a Porsche Taycan?

We know the answer for the Tesla because people do it every day, across many combinations of states. How far you can drive on a single charge means a lot less in practice than how far you can drive in a reasonable amount of time while charging at real, plentiful Supercharger stations.

> How long will it take to drive across five states in a Tesla Model S as compared to a Porsche Taycan?

Audi e-tron over 1000km: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFu9pkpunuo

Hyundai Kona over 1000km: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsEdAq4N_WU

Hyundai Kona halfway across the US: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/dr1gzm/i_...

The Porsche Taycan could do what the Kona did but faster: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019/products/porsche-taycan...

Taycan covering 3,425km in 24 hours straight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jSG_10_JRg

How far can the Model S go in 24 hours straight?

Teslas have moved past the "theoretically can we drive across the US" a long time ago. Nobody questions if any EV can do it given a careful selection of start and end points, route planning, and luck with third party charging stations working properly (they often do not).

The practical range-based use cases are way more meaningful, and they're proved out every day by real world Tesla owners doing normal things.

But it is nice to see these proof of concept demonstrations with other EVs. I think it's been a few years since a Tesla going from Niagara Falls to NYC warranted a press release.

So, no answer on the Model S's endurance then? I answered your question, why not answer mine instead of offering up evasions? If you don't know, simply say you don't know.

> why not answer mine instead of offering up evasions?

You should follow your own advice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

How far can the Model S go in 24 hours straight? I'll wait.

"2,424 Kilometers In 24 Hours In Tesla Model S … On German Autobahn"

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/25/2424-kilometers-24-hour...

You know a "real" open roads and not some marketing stunt in a circular track with a a 100 person support team with an onsite charger.

https://youtu.be/f2ArIq0QRX4?t=332

Any rational person would know that's a big difference. But you clearly are not so I'm not expecting much from you.

Ah, so again less distance covered. I accept your concession to the Taycan's win.

Have you placed your Taycan order?

The question was "How long will it take to drive across five states". So you really didn't answer the question and pivoted to something completely unrelated.

Since you are linking Bjørn Nyland Youtube videos including the Kona. Why not include the one below?

"Model 3 WORLD RECORD 2781 km in 24h - full video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TFpkoESEko

A real world example, not a marketing video on a closed circular track with a factory crew and dedicated onsite fast charger. Bjørn's tests are on open roads (with detours and colder climate) more like a cannonball run.

There's a video of him addressing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ArIq0QRX4

> So you really didn't answer the question

Don't be a sad case.

> 2781 km in 24h

So.. less then. And not a Model S but a Model 3. Too bad.

> A real world example

Just like the others then.

> So.. less then

Let's see.. 2781km > 1000km in 24 hrs or real world driving. You cannot dispute basic math.

> Just like the others then.

Again.. The Taycan video you linked was on a:

1. Closed circular track (Nardò Ring)

2. With a factory crew with engineers

3. Dedicated onsite fast charger

4. Ideal Italian hot weather. EV's fare better in hot compared to cold climate.

1. Bjørn's tests that are on open roads

2. With detours

3. Colder climate

4. Had to slow down due to heavy rain.

Sorry but you fell for a marketing hype.. Link me a video of the Taycan doing that and I will eat a humble pie.

> And not a Model S but a Model 3. Too bad.

The Model S can now do 373mi compared to 322mi on the Model 3. You honestly think (without any bias) that the Model S won't fare better?

> 2781km > 1000km

2781km is less than 3,425km. Show me a Model S doing more than the Taycan in 24 hours.

> You honestly think (without any bias) that the Model S won't fare better?

So it should be easy for you to provide an example of the Model S covering more distance than the Taycan in 24 hours. Show it to me.

Two variables that seem to drive the entire market are $/mile of range and grand total range.

The short history of EV market has plenty of vehicles that tried to up sell the je ne sais quoi factor, and were met with buyer indifference.

Also the organizations involved. Of course in this case you might be trading one shitty dealer dinosaur experience for a new, shiny, curated, walled garden.

Actually you can spec and order a Porsche online just like a Tesla.

Well, I do pay a lot of attention to price and range - unless you can get a decent sized car (at least by UK standards) for less than £25K and with a range of at least 300 miles I'm not going to buy one!

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