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Comment by flurdy | Hacker News Reader

TL;DR:

Truckers are all for automation at the port, as it makes their job better as there will be fewer queues and delays in loading their cargo. Their job security is not affected and they can deliver quicker.

Port workers are against automation, as it replaces their job descriptions.

Many of the port workers are also unionised and have more influence over the politicians and port authority. Truckers and immigrant port workers are not unionised and less effective at being heard.

Luddites will always resist technological improvements that reduce their job security. Everyone else will be for it as it improves their interaction with whatever that job delivers.

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> Luddites will always resist technological improvements

availability and administration of "jobs" is a constant battleground; I doubt it brings much to the discussion to reduce an entire portion of the situation to name calling.

Perhaps people who want to build automation see a "bright future", while people with no interest in building automation, and real-lives like family and housing, do not see it that way

Just about everyone (not just Luddites) will tend to resist technology changes that reduce their job security.

Automation is certainly not always a net improvement for users of the technology though. For example, self-service can certainly be good--ATMs, provisioning servers, even scanning one or two quick items in the store. But self-service for non-barcoded, awkwardly shaped, or just for large quantities is mostly a regression relative to a cashier as are all the automated phone systems that mostly try to keep you from actually reaching a person.

Just about everyone (not just Luddites) will tend to resist technology changes that reduce their job security.

The Luddites specifically opposed the textile technology because it threatened their jobs. Characterizing someone as a Luddite because they oppose a technology which threatens their job seems entirely appropriate even if they haven't sworn an oath to the society.

I'm not aware of a good word for people who oppose or resist technological changes in general. "technophobe" is inherently pejorative. Some writers are trying to use "Neo-Luddism", but adding modifiers to identifying names to make them identify something else does not lead to clarity.

Self serve will improve to the point where scanning each item won't be required.

Assuming everything is tagged for the scanning system which, for example, fresh produce often isn't. (Some chains get around this by packaging the fresh produce so it doesn't need to be individually weighed. Of course this generates additional packaging waste.)

But, yes, in general I expect self-serve checkout will get better/easier over time.

Upscale stores all package the freshest looking biggest produce and sell as a package for slightly more. Meat is similiar. Could be implemented right now in some places.

Whole Foods is pretty much unpackaged today for produce and much of the meat and fish.

Important detail: the port workers are paid hourly, while the truckers are paid by the load. These radically different financial incentives drive a deep wedge between them.

Great point. Imagine sitting in line waiting on someone while they're getting paid and you aren't.

> Everyone else will be for it as it improves their interaction with whatever that job delivers.

That's awfully optimistic.

Can you think of any reasons it might NOT be true that “everyone else is better off when people lose jobs to automation“?

If enough people lose their jobs at once, they may organize, turn violent, and overthrow the government.

You may think im being hyperbolic, but this is a very real situation if the longshoremen, truck drivers, and loaders all lose their jobs to automation with a few years of each other. This is especially true in LA as those jobs make up a significant percentage of employment in that area.

I think the risk of the scenario you describe is low, but it could happen and it has in the past.

Other reasons also come to mind. When someone is out of work tax revenues decrease and a variety of social costs can increase. Infrastructure costs and welfare expenditures are immediately impacted. The unemployed person is still using public roads & services, but no longer paying taxes to fund them. If the displaced employee gets hurt, then emergency services costs increase. If they turn to crime, court and jail costs go up. And that’s a cursory list of impacts. So there are many ways society pays a price for automation.

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