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Comment by nicholashead | Hacker News Reader

I like DHH for the most part, but sometimes on stuff like this, seems so out of touch. This isn't an Apple-created problem - credit scores/etc. are deeply flawed. We all know this. Throwing Apple under the bus is silly, but a big target I guess, and a juicier headline. Nothing to see here. If you really want change, go after the credit bureaus and banks backing the cards themselves.

Claiming an algorithm/process is sexist without specific evidence is also problematic, along with claiming this is a "justice for all issue"-- how exactly is anyone/any corporation required to loan you money in any capacity?

Side note - are folks trying to make this like a bigger debate about "algorithms" and "machine learning" in general? They do realize they're different things, right? We're not that dumb as a society--- I hope?

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Please watch his interview (https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/11/11/full-interview-with-au...). He explains specifically why they are calling out Apple in the interview.

Credit access is definitely a "justice for all" issue. Access to credit is a huge determinant of social success, and there are entire government departments dedicated to making it more equitable.

In both the interview and the post linked here, there is an explanation of why opaque algorithms are a problem. So yes, this is about algorithms (if not specifically machine learning).

Generic non-sequiturs like your last sentence don't really add to the discussion.

There is nothing new here, though. Apple isn't the one using "the algorithm", the banks are. I watched the interview, and it didn't address why they're targeting Apple other than it's the "Apple card" they're having problems with. I'm fine with fighting the good fight about transparency on credit factors, etc - so do that! DHH knows what he's doing poking the new shiny target on the block that's super recognizable and hot.

Agree to disagree on the credit issue - I don't believe any corporation or establishment owes anyone any loan/credit-line they don't feel like backing. There's an indeterminate amount of lenders out there though, I guarantee at least one of them will cut you a deal, but on their terms. If you're talking about government lines of credit/loans, that's an entirely different matter.

Yes, he's poking a shiny target, because that's the only way things will change. Just to repeat what is said in the interview: they are targeting Apple because they otherwise respect Apple as a company and consider it responsible for the decisions behind its card.

Here is a well-researched article about equitable access to credit and algorithmic decision making. https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/technology/459455-ma...

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