Comment by vector_spaces | Hacker News Reader

Comment by vector_spaces | Hacker News Reader

This is the top listing returned in Amazon's search results for the main textbook used in upper division and first year graduate level statistical inference courses in North America

http://imgur.com/a/nYmkFie

Notice the black mark on the bottom right corner? That's to conceal text saying that it's an international edition not to be sold outside of India -- editions that tend to be dirt cheap compared to North American editions but have poor print and binding jobs, usually no preface or solutions to problems in the appendix, and missing chapters. Notice that it's original price was listed as $999.99 and it's listed as 98% off? The listing price of the NA edition is actually about $100.

This listing shows up before the legitimate listing in the search results. It has been this way for many months. I'm fine with international editions being sold on Amazon -- so long as they are clearly labeled as such.

When this problem has become so pervasive and even impacts Amazon's original core business to this extent, I find myself looking to other retailers... Only to find it impacting many of them as well. I bought an international edition from a third party seller on hpb.com, and my partner is finding shady probably factory produced stuff littered with obviously fake reviews on Etsy now.

I'm really curious what the evolution of this problem will look like for e-commerce marketplaces.

As a resident of India, from personal experience, I can say that while it is true that the print jobs of the Indian editions may be inferior to those of the US editions, the Indian edition books do not miss prefaces/chapters/appendices or solutions.

The only difference is that usually, they have shuffled chapters/ end of chapter problems( but with proper index ) and a black and white/ two colour print job instead of a full colour print.

I would much rather prefer to pay ₹300(~5USD) for a black and white Indian Edition than $900+ for a coloured US edition.

Thank you for your perspective here. I've felt that way in the past and I have certainly purchased international editions intentionally.

For me, as someone who's learning primarily independently, the North American editions tend to have features that make self-study a lot easier, and do sometimes have different chapters. For example, I have both the international/Indian version and the North American version of Michael Artin's Algebra second edition in front of me.

The international edition is missing a preface (I like those because they give you some insight into the author's point of view and approach), doesn't have solutions in the back (useful for validating your work if you're self-studying), the table of contents isn't broken down by section only by chapter (not too big a deal for me), and is missing chapter 16 on galois theory, a bibliography (sometimes I like to use these to pursue topics in more detail), as well as an appendix altogether (the NA version's appendix has a section of proof strategy, construction of the integers, Zorn's lemma, the implicit function theorem -- for me these are 'nice-to-have's but not required).

Much of this I can probably live without -- and if I were a student on a very tight budget, I would probably! But I hope you can see how paying for what I thought was a used copy of the North American edition and receiving the International edition would be a bit disappointing (this particular case happened to me on hpb.com, not Amazon)

In particular I think my point is that sellers of international editions sometimes conceal the fact that what they are selling is the international edition. The example I gave with Casella & Berger in my first post is clearly doing this with how the cover is blotted out and nowhere on the listing does it mention it's an international edition.

So for me it's about transparency and meeting expectations -- I'm fine with international editions being sold at all on Amazon, I think it's great that they can be an accessible option for some people who don't need/care about the features I mentioned.

> The international edition is missing a preface (I like those because they give you some insight into the author's point of view and approach), doesn't have solutions in the back (useful for validating your work if you're self-studying), the table of contents isn't broken down by section only by chapter (not too big a deal for me), and is missing chapter 16 on galois theory, a bibliography (sometimes I like to use these to pursue topics in more detail), as well as an appendix altogether (the NA version's appendix has a section of proof strategy, construction of the integers, Zorn's lemma, the implicit function theorem -- for me these are 'nice-to-have's but not required).

Quite surprised to hear this. Every international edition I've bought has been near identical to the US version (except the print quality).

I wonder: Did you perhaps get a counterfeit copy? Not all textbooks have an international edition. Was this Artin's international edition a sanctioned one, or did someone in India simply violate copyright and labeled it as "International"?

Galois Theory isn't taught in India, because Galois challenged Ramunajan as youngest genius since Newton.

To me, this is a feature, not a bug. I'd be overjoyed to save one thousand dollars on a text book with slightly worse printing.

Saving a few dollars to buy trash... not so much.

Edit: thanks for the response below pointing out that the savings is not so extreme. Still, when I was an undergrad, money was very tight for me, so if I could find a way to save a few bucks, I was grateful for it.

The listing price of the non-international edition isn't a thousand dollars -- it's about a hundred new, with several $50 listings for a used copy. Which is pricey, but not as egregious as e.g. Stewart's Calculus which runs close to $250 new for the latest edition

This is a huge problem for my wife, a resident doctor.

She has reverted to ordering from Barnes and Noble and local book stores because she doesn't know what she'll get off Amazon. If she misses something important because she inadvertently got a knockoff with missing/incorrect info, she can't use the book as an excuse.

Having it available isn't the problem. Having it show up above the regular product, and misleading people about what they're actually buying, is the problem.

Most of my textbooks were international editions or a few editions back, for me that listing is an issue as the international is cheaper elsewhere. On Abebooks (which is great for searching by ISBN) It's $17.41 - not a big difference, but if I thought I was buying the standard edition I would go for the Amazon.

The problem is: it's not clear that it's a different edition, so they are basically lying to you.

It seems odd to complain about that when that's exactly the book that student want. I actually have a cheap international edition of Statistical Inference on my shelf right now that I used in college and it was (and still is) perfectly good.

The listing is scummy dgmw, but the product is legit. I don't know anyone outside of the clique of rich international students that actually bought the "legit" versions.

I feel bad for anyone who had a professor that mandated a specific version and edition but that's really the only people who should be buying it. The maths in the cheap versions are just the same.

In my case, I am self-studying, so I prefer there to be some solutions in the back of the book, a preface to explain the author's point of view and approach to the text, and a print and binding job that is durable enough to last years (rather than just long enough for a class).

I can understand why someone would prefer an international edition -- I've certainly been there, but my expectation with Amazon.com is that the non-international edition would take preference in the search results -- and furthermore, that the international edition would be clearly marked as such

I completely agree with you. It's not a matter of saving money or not, it's a matter of having a clear title and description, making it explicit where's that edition from.

Wow, that is so shoddy, thanks for sharing.

Seems like Amazon needs to police its own marketplace...but does it care if its revenues are all coming from AWS?

I was curious about the normal price of this item and found this in the first link in a google search for "Statistical Inference Casella":

https://fsalamri.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/casella_berger_...

I do not vouch for this site or file, simply sharing for research purposes.

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