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Public schools are what I'm talking about - the ones people would actually transfer to. (UCB, UCLA, UW (where I went), UT Austin - all top ranked CS program schools) Private is much worse. You'll probably never get into a top private school unless you're transferring from another top tier institution - most people I saw transferring into such schools were already from other top tier schools. Stanford, for instance, accepted 27 transfer students last year. 27 - that's it. Same story for many other prestigious colleges.

The point of going to a top program isn't that it's a better program academically (maybe it is - maybe it isn't). It's about the resume and other things the university offers. Some of the schools help place you in co-op programs, have catered career fairs, and much more. They can set you far apart from other "lower tier" schools and make you stand out in the overwhelming crowd of new grads. It's mostly about signalling more than anything.

Sometimes I wonder if signaliing is the real 'value' they offer that people seem to want to work for, the problem isn't as much the education as it is.. everything else.

knowledge is knowledge, no matter where you obtained it. However, the connections you make during college is sometimes quite important, as they are the windows of opportunity that aren't available to the non-connected. E.g., if you have a friend in the same class, then they are more likely to refer you to their company if you are in need of a job (later in life). Or if they are already rich and are investors, you are more likely to be considered to be confounders or business partners.

Shouldn't you learn economics instead of CS if you want to run business?

Steve Jobs studied English. Ran multiple companies.

Consider many people here, who regularly complain about incompetent management.

If you want to run an already very large business your best bet is to go in to management consulting. In that case what you study is less important than getting top grades at a top school and interviewing like a champ.

If you want to run a business that isn't but has the potential to maybe be very large then easiest way to do that is to build your own and CS has a very low bar for entrepreneurial activity.

If you just want to run any business then no degree necessary. Just work in food service and treat it like a career. Maybe do a bookkeeping course. You'll get to manage a restaurant eventually.

Sure, one can run business incompetently, but is it desirable?

Well, yes, of course it is. If someone graduated from Oxford or Harvard then the reputation will follow them for the rest of their lives. It’s bizarre really but it’s also so normal that no one ever stops to question it. Same with some companies, e.g Google, they are 100,000 people now, very far from an elite, but work there even for a few months and you will be an ex-Googler for the rest of your life.

Is it like that for other FANG companies? Which ones constitute being an “elite”?

Maybe Netflix? The others are just on a level with IBM or HP or MS or whoever now. Big tech companies staffed with average engineers. They are coasting on reputations earned when they were just a few hundred of the best engineers.

Google Facebook Netflix.

Why isn’t there an A represented here?

Doesn't carry the same weight IMO.

Why?

Don't know. But you can get better opportunities everywhere with G on your resume over Amazon. Amazon also pays way less and has worse perks in everyway. Google was known to be a great place to work. That legend carries on amongst non tech people.

Are you saying amazonians are inferior or something? Sounds out of touch and insulting to me.

You should check out the book The Case Against Education if you want to pull on that thread a little more with signaling. It's a compelling book for me.

Stanford's undergraduate enrollment is 7,087. Very very few if any of those 27 transfers were from JCs. Berkeley's undergraduate enrollment is 30,853. About 4,617 JC transfer students were offered admission.

For California in specific, there are special legal privileges for transfer applications from community colleges to the UC system. That's what you're supposed to do as a community college student, so e.g. it's easier to transfer into a UC from a community college than from a CSU, even though the CSU students are, by design, superior to the community college students.

I'm curious where you get your statistics from? Do they break down the transfer students' details, ie, how many of them are US students and how many are from China? The competition against rich Chinese students for getting accepted into Cal has gotten more and more fierce the past 20 years.

The UC system schools publish these statistics yearly.

Transfers don't include foreign students as they generally aren't eligible for transfers.

Undergraduate international students are limited at Berkeley:

  Freshman 869 (admit)
  Transfer 379
  Graduate 1,786

https://internationaloffice.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files...

UW being University of Washington? I transferred into UW CSE from N Seattle Community College as did many others! We had maybe 3.7+ GPAs in community college and intro courses overall.

Private like ivy leagues didn’t make sense for me then because tuition assistance was so poor. Unless you’re super highly ranked and can get a ton of merit based scholarships that was a bad idea anyway.

However, it’s perfectly reasonable to work hard in undergrad as a researcher and student then make your way into the top tier. James Mickens is a great example of this path. This is obviously not for everyone but neither are private world acclaimed universities.

Depends on the year. I mean, they take like over 5x the students now than they did when I was there. For the time I was going, they weren't accepting transfer students like myself with anything shy of a 3.9. I think that was the lowest I saw for accepted on the stats website.

I had a 4.0 before I moved up to Seattle. I thought it was going to be a done deal but then I got some bad professors and it screwed me over. Quite unfortunate.

I don't think people need to get into top private schools. It's just a matter of how hard you want to work after college because you won't have had the same footing as those other folks.

> Private like ivy leagues didn’t make sense for me then because tuition assistance was so poor. Unless you’re super highly ranked and can get a ton of merit based scholarships that was a bad idea anyway.

Another option (depending on the school) is low to no tuition if coming from a lower income family. I want to say it’s Stanford but i may be wrong, that offers free tuition to eligible students whose family income was less than something like $50,000/yr. So there are ways for poor students to get a great ivy league education but like you said, you must also have extremely high rankings in your class to attempt that route.

> and if their engineering program is not accredited, you shouldn’t even entertain the idea of entering that program

Did you know that, for example, Stanford’s CS program is not accredited?

Do you think people shouldn’t entertain the idea of going to Stanford for CS?!

> something like engineering is a program that has to follow strict course requirements

From what I know accreditation sets a super low bar because it’s all above that bar. What colleges teach varies massively. You definitely can go to a lower ranked but still accredited college and come out with massive gaps in your knowledge compared to an unaccredited program like Stanford that would push you much more.

> this constant myth that comes up when talking about higher education and that is a top ranking = better

I don’t think that any of us think that, but there are people doing the hiring that do think that. There are jobs you can get if you graduated from MIT that you can’t get if you graduated from Idaho State. Mr. Idaho State will find a job, and it will be a good job, but Mr. MIT will find a better one.