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Comment by slumdev | Hacker News Reader

> 3. Don't try to win. (The extra 1-5% you might gain in most cases is outweighed by the negativity of the event. If you're negotiating with a future employer, vendor, or potential client, then the value of having them actually want to talk to you is greater than the difference most of the time.)

This one is useful when the two parties are equals, but it is horribly wrong in negotiating with a future employer.

Once they've identified you as someone they want, and they've made you an initial offer, nothing you can say* will make them walk. And if you negotiate well, you'll be identified as higher value than someone who didn't.

*Within reason - if they offer $120k and you ask $150k, that's fine. If they offer $120k and you ask $500k, you might run into problems.

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Positioning fair market value as your asking price (whether it's 500k or 25k) isn't what I'd call trying to win. It's just asking for fair compensation. If you know the rough value of your position, which isn't normally too difficult to ascertain with reasonable accuracy, you can feel pretty good about making such a request. (And of course, if you are in the top x% for your role, then that just tips the scales further)

Hey, this isn't really true. Some management / HR folk will brag about revoking offers. Makes them feel real good about themselves and the power they weild

I don't want to work for those people. I'll keep negotiating to win when it comes to salary.

Further, those people are loser PHBs whose antisocial behaviors drive away good talent. Their behavior will eventually catch up with them.

...

You don't want to work for these companies.

I'm sure this is true, but most companies don't want this either. They lose money and waste time when this happens -- if they waited until the end to discuss salary (like they should be).

Some companies will try to feel you out for salary right off the bat in order to "weed out" anyone who would ask for too much money, and you need to always resist this.

Why do you resist talking about salary until the end?

The strategy is meant to introduce more sunk costs in the hiring process. They spent forever buttering up the candidate, and now they hear a number that is more than they were hoping for.

The less they need you, the less this is likely to matter. But if they really need you then of course your price is high!

An HR functionary doing a preliminary phone screen might dismiss a candidate who asks $135k for a position with a $100-130k range.

A hiring manager, after having offered $130k, would never do something that stupid.

Your bargaining position is much better once they've already decided they want to hire you. Talking about salary first lets the company cheap out and only spend that effort on people they are reasonably sure won't ask for what they're worth.

This is why so many places have a "Salary Expectations" box or something similar on their interest form. Some will even try to brow beat you into saying a number. Never do this until they've named a number first. This puts pressure on them to offer something reasonable right off the bat, instead of having the pressure on you to not ask too high.

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