Comment by Osiris | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Osiris | Hacker News Reader

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> they’re barely getting by, tithing their 10%, but the Mormon church is amassing such wealth yet my friend’s family of five is on food stamps. Something feels off there.

The church has welfare programs to help members and non-members that are need. I've personally recommended such food and rent assistance from the church at a point in my life. I've even had the church cover expenses for mental health counseling.

I've also personally witnessed and helped to deliver food and provide service to those in need. Sometimes people in need receive in aid more than they tithe.

There's also a huge social network of people helping each other out not directly related to church funds.

There is also the Helping Hands program that provides labor and food and other support when there are natural disasters all over the world, including some big ones here in the US.

This is not a situation that's all take and no give. Not only does the church provide a lot of welfare support, but actively encourages members to be Christ-like and serve everyone in need.

Absolutely! As I said, I’m officially a member and live in a fairly affluent area. When I was unemployed and going through some tough times, even though I’ve never tithed they extended food aid to me. It was a very humbling experience, and if I didn’t have to believe all the stuff Joseph Smith made up I’d probably be an active Mormon. The ingroup exhortations of beliefs that, charitably, are very unlikely, is something I have a very hard time doing, even though quite honestly my life would be better if I was an active Mormon. I have so much respect for all the work Mormons do, though, and think I’m a better person for having grown up with friends in the church.

You bring up something that bothers me too. The manipulation of local congregations in order to fund the central corporation is disappointing to say the least. Mormons are often the nicest people you'll find. It's a shame they are expected to express belief in racist, sexist, or other bigoted beliefs in order to be fully acceptable to their in-group.

I point out in another comment that, charitably, congregations receive about 8% of donations back to fund local congregations, often several multiples less. Some congregations I saw send about $25k/week on average for ~200 congregants, and have an $8k budget (about twice that if you account for mainteance, about about $20k when taking charitable giving of food and bill payment into account). What was most disappointing was the training of how to get people with long term needs off of the congregation's dime.

I think the Mormon church would do well to adopt a less centralized form of governance, treasury, and cash management.

Yes and no. One way to think of it is as a redistribution of wealth -- while some locations are pushing larger amounts of money into the system, others are undoubtedly receiving more than they give. The end result is that everyone, regardless of the affluence of their neighborhood, gets a perfectly acceptable building and environment in which to learn.

Thinking about the US education specifically...imagine if we handled finances that way? Schools are largely paid for by local property taxes, so the rich areas get well funded schools, and the poor areas get poorly funded schools. If it was centralized and balanced, the rich schools might not get as many 3d printers, but perhaps the poor schools could get books. It might not be fair in the sense that those that pay more should get more, but it would be fair if your end goal is balance and charity.

     It's a shame they are expected to express belief in     
     racist, sexist, or other bigoted beliefs in order to be 
     fully acceptable to their in-group.

It's a shame you feel that way. I've been to churches in Massachusetts, Utah, Missouri, Texas, Yucatan, and Guatemala. I'm not sure where you're getting that.

A few commentaries and examples. Remember these are not local congregations pushing this, but the central corporation. The item isn't "all Mormons do this" but rather there is a culture that encourages these divisions.

Racism

- https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/mormons...

- https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/fake-apology-for-mo...

- https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/06/09/39-years-later-priest...

Sexism

- https://www.livescience.com/46867-mormon-church-gender-roles...

- https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/02/22/where-mormon-chur...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_women

Other bigotry

-https://rewire.news/article/2019/04/25/lgbtq-mormons-are-sti...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8:_The_Mormon_Proposition

Maybe it depends on beliefs and definitions. But here is much that we are taught, centrally. We certainly hear a lot about being kind to others, and also that we are not authorized to change God's commandments with respect to the nature and purpose of individual and family, now and in eternity. I believe one can search by topics, etc: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/general-conference?lang=...

and about:

families: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587315.html

service to all others: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587314.html

And generally: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587122.html

But even these topics have a hard time introspecting the racist norms integrated. Consider: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/01/18/error-printed-lds...

I have genuine hope for Mormons, that they can repatriate for their historical blunders and be the great, solid people they aspire to be. They really do tend to be great people, just a little to at-the-ready to do what their hierarchical leadership deigns -- and to me that sacrifice of moral compass was my fundamental wedge issue. Self-introspection is a difficult principle to learn regardless of one's background.

Thanks for your comments. Humans are imperfect, a work in progress. I'm not perfect, I will keep trying. God is perfect. I have learned He lives. I'm glad He is patient, while knowing everything.

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