Comment by Sytten | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Sytten | Hacker News Reader

Tech salaries in Canada are very low and I really hope this will raise the bar for everybody. Most of the talent (outside of Quebec) migrates south of the border at some point, because it makes no financial sense to stay. Innovation outside of Toronto is low/inexistent and it is hard to get funding. I am always amazed when founders make the national news here when they raise 1-2M$ CAD. At the same time, you have CEOs complaining that the video game industry is poaching dev unfairly (because the salaries are subsidized) instead of raising their own salaries... It really is a sad state. It might be due to the fact that we have a culture of small/medium businesses that are very slow to adopt new technologies and a mentally of what we called in french "born for small bread". At the same time, since nobody is really making a lot of money you also have a more equal society leading to a better quality of life IMO (less crime, more generosity, etc).

As a new grad myself, I am in this situation where I get offers of >120k USD if I move to SV with a growth potential (both in technical and financial terms) far better than what I can get here. In Quebec (where I live), I saw most of my peers stay around and accept salaries ranging from 65k CAD to 80k CAD (50k-61k USD). From what I know, an average senior can expect 120-130k CAD in Montreal. The only way to make more is by being a consultant, which is why you see a lot of them around here (for better or worse). I would feel a bit guilty to move to the US right now considering I got basically a free education and I do want to contribute back to society.

I just love to hear this.

/sarcasm on

With 26 years in software development, low level linux (kernel "stuff") and low level windows (kernel "stuff" again), with work including from analyzing malware to writting DRM that was left unbroken for 3 years, to high level software, system administration on various unixes and unix like beasts, including low level networking, fluent in c, c++, asm x86/64, go and some "stuff" I am not proud off (c#, java, python, js, php), expirience in management, team leadership, working for bluechips, US three letter agencies and army (as a part of my previous jobs), annoyingly proficient in security (..., there is more, but who cares) I earn 24k netto euros a year and consider myself lucky, due to a fact that I cant move to another country based on broken marriage and my wish to still parent my kid every second week. Oh, you have 120k salery? I wouldnt complain if I were you.

/sarcasm off

Just my 5 cents, Instead of counting the money, concentrate on what makes you happy. You will pass better on long term. At the end there is not much you can take into grave. And money certanly doesnt make it softer.

SV is so gluttonous that we forget how good we have it relative to almost every other market in the world. We do half-page rants just because we accidentally stepped in dog doo before work.

> writting DRM that was left unbroken for 3 years

> and some "stuff" I am not proud off (c#, java, python, js, php)

I would venture that maybe you should be less proud of the first one and less ashamed of the second one.

Why? Not all DRM is the boogie-man.

He's proud he invented a lock nobody could pick. Whether that lock create inconveniences to some people is another thing but that's not his fault.

Inventing the atomic bomb was a huge technical achievement.

Your advice at the end is good but I would add that you shouldn't let others take advantage of you.

People aren't being paid $200k-$2M / year for reasons of charity. They get paid that much because their contribution to the company is higher than that.

And exactly this is the part where people have problem understanding. If there is no company that you could sell your knowlidge for the sallary you would like to have, it doesnt matter how good you are. I know lots of local developers that are top notch, earning even less, on the other side, forgive me the wording, I know a few midiocre people, that were kicked out of my company as incompetent (they really were incompetent) and later passed google interviews (before anyone says it, I dont want to work at google, there are other more honorable jobs like selling drugs to kids or selling arms to central africa - I'll pass those too)).

Bottom line, knowlidge is not worth a penny, it doesnt matter. Only how good you are to selling yourself and if there is no company preparing to offer you a higher sallary - relocate somewhere else. Or decide not to move and be satisfied with what you have. Like I decided my kid is more important than Tesla and bunch of expansive gadgets (while I do have long term ENTP/INTP relationship with a former photomodel that has IQ higher that anyone that was hitting on her though ;) ). And I am happy. More than most people running for money.

I will repeat it once again. Go for whatever makes you happy. Ignore the money, as a developer you will survive. Dont put money as your goal as you will be miserable at the end.

>Your advice at the end is good but I would add that you shouldn't let others take advantage of you.

Everybody is being taken advantage of if you think about it, especially if you're a salaried employee.

Hell, if you ask Googlers earning $600k they'll think they're being taken advantage of. If you ask CEOs of F500 companies they'll also think they're being take advantage of. If you ask Multi-Billionaires with offshore accounts in tax havens to pay their fair share of taxes, they'll also think they're bein taken advantage of.

If you let this way of thinking drive your life, you'll end up very miserable.

> Everybody is being taken advantage of if you think about it, especially if you're a salaried employee.

I disagree.

If you think every employer is going to take advantage of you, then you should start a business and become self-employed.

I'm very happy working where I do. I'm well paid and genuinely like the people I work with. I've been here for 20 years now.

In 2019, PDFTron, a Vancouver-based tech company, received a USD $71 million investment from Silversmith Capital Partners (a Tier 1 growth equity firm).

Vancouver’s tech scene is exploding, with a number of top tier tech companies being based here (like Clio) and majors setting up dev offices (Shopify, Amazon, Microsoft).

That's really good news and we need more of it for sure. But looking at objective total $ invested (and growth), it does not paint the same picture. Those examples are still exceptions rather than the new norm, we just don't have that many (would-be) unicorns/fast-growing companies. Even if we did, I am still unsure the salaries would go up and most companies don't give equity... I am rather pessimistic about this tech boom narrative that the medias try to sell us. What I see is some large firms taking advantage of a low CAD while most tech companies are still at low/zero growth and offer very mediocre salaries. Maybe it's only in Quebec though.

The QC is notably bad for salaries, but part of that is also the highest taxes in Canada and corresponding social services. Low housing prices, too.

> What I see is some large firms taking advantage of a low CAD while most tech companies are still at low/zero growth and offer very mediocre salaries.

Absolutely. You could throw around $120-150k yearly rates in CAD and you'd have applications from all over the country. Currently CAD-USD is around .77 so they're looking at a 25% discount.

Vancouver, however, has seen a crazy high influx of foreign capital -- way more $$$ coming from China than from a $71 million dole via Investment Firm -- and the price of housing in Vancouver is absurd.

For the HN crowd, imagine San Fran housing prices with East Oregon salaries. A deeper dive: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-yet-again-most-expensive-pla...

I've been to Vancouver a lot, it's a great place to be, but in terms of climate, culture, and activities you can get mostly the same in Seattle. If Seattle is too expensive work remote or commute from Mt. Vernon or Bellingham.

True, but Canada has roughly the same population as California. So objective total may not be the best metric.

Clio raised $330 million last year.

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