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Comment by crispinb | Hacker News Reader

What about reducing your chances of killing other people?

As a somewhat jaded motorcyclist (though not in the US) I'm unsurprised to see no mention of us in the article. Not sure of the US stats, but in Aus the biggest dangers to motorcyclists are (a) other drivers not seeing us [1] then (b) our own stupidity.

Not much for anyone but motorcyclists to do about (b), but I would make some appeals to car drivers:

Think about motorcyclists at junctions - we're not actually invisible, and what you miss seeing is primarily a function of your own inculcated habits of observation.

Don't tailgate motorcycles. It's frightening and forces us to deploy more attention behind us than is safe.

On undivided roads, stay to your side of the road on bends, even if there are puddles or potholes.

Thanks.

[1. known here in Australia as a SMIDSY - 'sorry mate I didn't see you']

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I don't know what the stats are in Aus, but in NZ that turned out not to be true:

https://www.rideforever.co.nz/news-and-reviews/new-single-po...

Take the received wisdom that car drivers cause the majority of motorcycle accidents. No they dont. It turns out, motorcyclists are solely or primarily responsible for the crashes theyre involved in 56% of the time. Though, if the crash involves another vehicle, its more likely the other road user was at fault.

My a & b weren't intended to be ranked though clumsy phrasing did suggest it. The situation is contested & difficult in Australia, because so much of the data comes from our traffic cops, who are poorly trained in crash investigation by international standards. I don't have refs handy, but I've seen widely disparate stats here - official (police-derived) ones generally put more of the 'blame' on motorcyclists than do university studies. I actually did a course at Queensland uni on traffic accidents many years ago, and it was a minefield of unreliable data and motivated interpretation. I've no idea whether NZ is better or worse in that respect.

In any case, whether car drivers are the cause of the majority or minority of cases, shouldn't they wish to make efforts to avoid killing other road users?

Taking a look at that report, it seems to be missing an important statistic when it comes to motorcycle crashes.

What is the fatality and serious injury rate when comparing when the motorcyclist is at fault vs when the other vehicle is at fault.

An accident involving just a motorcycle, intuitively, seems a lot less likely to be fatal to a properly geared person. Often times such an accident will be because of operator error and result in a low-side crash. Crashing into something on the road could result in serious damage, but that's a lot less likely than losing traction and falling off. If I recall correctly, the Hurt report supports this.

Similarly, in a two-vehicle accident where the motorcyclist is at fault, the motorcyclist is likely to see it coming and attempt to prevent it in some way. Additionally such a statistic will also include motorcyclists low-siding and then their motorcycle (or them) sliding into a vehicle.

Overall, it seems believable to me that while a in majority (56% isn't even that much more) of motorcycle crashes the rider is at fault, if we take a look at only fatal crashes and crashes resulting in serious injury, cars will bear the majority of the responsibility.

All that said, I also find that report to be a bit alarmist and disingenuous with statistics, particularly when compared to the Hurt and the MAIDS reports. I would assume this was done in the interest of "scaring" riders into safer behaviors and not with any malicious intent.

Not directly related to motorcycles, but I've been a pedestrian in countries like Thailand, China, Bulgaria and Georgia.

I've never felt more like cars were actively trying to mow me down than when I lived in Auckland, NZ.

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