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Comment by andrepd | Hacker News Reader

Speak for yourself. It drives me absolutely insane that I simply cannot buy a recent phone today which is smaller than the largest phablets sold in 2014. This is bonkers.

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What? The pixel 4 is a half inch smaller than some of the the smaller phablets of 2014 (the iPhone 6XL and Nexus 6). I can't find a single "phablet" releases that is smaller than the pixel 4 (and similarly an iPhone X, although the 11 seems to be larger than the smallest phablets).

If you compare with the largest phablets, those with > 6 inch screen sizes, modern phones are like an inch smaller in both dimensions.

There was no 6XL.

they clearly meant 6+

Given the ridiculous nature of phone naming, nothing can be considered clear.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/16/6155009/apple-iphone-6-pl...

>Pixel 4

Now compare that with the iphone SE: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9896&idPhone2... With modern narrow bezels it could easily carry a 5 inch screen.

I find that bezels play a role in ergonomics. Fit the biggest display you can and your phone cannot be held anymore without accidental touches registering.

True, but even 4 inches is already a perfectly acceptable display size (and you can push at least to 4.5-4.7 without compromising ergonomics; see the Sony XZ2 compact, the single compact phone in existence in the last 2 years).

I don't understand why simple algo "don't register touches 5mm from the edge" isn't implemented. Or at least give me it in settings. This will allow to use full screen for video etc, but also will be much more convenient. Don't know who iphone handles it, but my current phone (xiaomi) doesn't have it and it's very annoying.

I was holding my old iPhone 4 not too long ago and I think it’s my favorite one so far. I’m still stuck with my iPhone 7 because everything has just gotten too huge.

Nostalgia, rose-colored glasses, etc., but I loved the iPhone 4 form factor. Mostly symmetrical, fit in your pockets, easy to hold, with a bit of heft. And the 2x screen density was a revelation.

It was super heavy though. So dense and heavy I remember I couldn't carry it in my pocket when wearing shorts shorts.

Definitely on the heavy side, but I can’t remember that ever being a problem for me (I also don’t wear shorts, so maybe that’s why).

If they could make that form factor lighter with aN edge to edge screen it’d be me ideal phone.

Non XL Pixels are okayish, but I still prefer the iPhone SE form factor. Or the Nokia N9 form factor, which aside from being small had a perfectly curved screen and matching gestures.

The only device right now that comes a bit close is the Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact. But it's very expensive for what it offers. At least, they have great kernel & AOSP suppport.

I use a Pixel 4 and still use my Nexus 6 as a backup alarm clock. Every time I pick up the Nexus 6 I'm amazed I used to carry that around. It's immense in comparison.

Have you looked at the new Palm phone? [1] It looks like an ideal small phone, with a camera that, judging at least by the marketing copy, should be quite good. It's advertised as Verizon's exclusive, but at least in Europe you can get an unlocked version on Amazon.

[1] https://palm.com/pages/product

Not only is it Verizon exclusive (or was, up until recently), it is not considered a primary phone, so you have to have a separate, regular phone on a normal line just to use it.

Wrong on both accounts. It is a stand-alone phone now.

This might have changed recently as well; from the marketing copy:

   Unlocked Palm is a standalone device that works as a normal phone with supported carriers.

   However, Palm is also enjoyed by many users as a secondary device.

Please don't use code blocks for quoting. (Unless you also hard-wrap the quote at ~50 columns. The blocks themselves don't wrap long lines but rather are horizontal-scrolling, cut off, and annoying.)

Don't hard wrap either. There is no fixed line length that works well on multiple devices.

Instead, just use italics, perhaps with ">" prefixes:

> Unlocked Palm is a standalone device that works as a normal phone with supported carriers.

> However, Palm is also enjoyed by many users as a secondary device.

That’s actually a weird quirk of this phone, even the Verizon one is not locked. The SIM card slot is still there but they make it weird to eject, too.

You can use it with any old SIM but you’ll want to adb uninstall Verizon apps.

I think they wanted the Verizon exclusivity money but know that the tinkerer type is more of their market.

I did try this phone for a while and it was far too much of a toy. Even for the intended purpose the battery life isn’t enough to take away dead phone anxiety.

The screen was sharp and surprisingly readable. Text was very, very hard to input.

It’d truly be a good device if it was literally the size of the iPhone 4 instead of something smaller.

At the time I couldn’t find any sort of convenient way to root the phone.

32GB :-(

I bought one, tried to use it as a primary phone for a while, Super cute, everyone laughs when I spoke on it... it's just a little too little phone.

My biggest complaint was the battery, It has much too little battery to be used as a primary phone, and the "secondary phone" idea is just a stupid one.

Also, as far as features I do use my phone for, camera is important for me personally. And the palm palm camera is much to bad to be useful.

I'm ok with how small it is, but I'd be happy with something quite a bit bigger, but Battery and Camera would be essential for me to use it.

I wish they'd do a new palm pre, it still is to me the best cellphone made.

Has anyone had luck with the Unihertz Atom (2.45” screen, bulky due to the battery)

https://www.unihertz.com/atom

It gets better reviews than the Palm. From what I can tell, Unihertz’s previous model (the jelly pro) was smaller, with battery problems similar to the Palm.

When my wife was in Singapore around 2005 she brought back the most amazing LG phone. Black metal. Heavy for its size. Felt durable as all get out. And small. So small.

This was pre-iPhone days, so it didn't have a full app ecosystem, but it took photos and little videos and was a great little device. I wish I could remember what it was called so I could look it up and buy one.

Edit: Found it! LG KE820: https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_ke820-1761.php

SMS, e-mail, MP3 player, Bluetooth, photos, video. The only thing missing is GPS, but my car has that.

Hahaha, here is mine around that time; I had it for over 4 years: https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_w595-2469.php

Honestly I have considered more than once in the past year just ditching smartphones altogether and carrying a feature phone with wifi+gps... But it's still a big headache in terms of missing features and applications.

If you’re interested in that, KaiOS devices may be of interest to you.

These tick all the boxes for me (small, long battery life, GPS, music), but they have 2-3 MP cameras. This is understandable, given the < $100 price tag.

Am I the only one that would pay $100’s more for that package with a decent camera? (And AGPS, since some seem to be GPS-only)

Feature phone + iPad w/ LTE

It also frustrates me that phones are slippery by default and have buttons on the sides which parents inevitably push by accident when receiving a phone to look at photos.

I just use a case. It's nice.

I have nothing against buying cases but let’s be honest, if the answer to a genuine solvable hardware problem is to buy more hardware then you have to sympathise with those who complain about the insanity of the current market.

Why commit to small differences in an entire inventory/supply chain problem for a very complex and expensive device instead of a thin wrapper?

Phones are thin! The case makes them reasonably sized. Treat a naked phone the same as you would a naked human: unsuitable and unprepared to go outside.

But if phones were built more durable would they be smaller than the thick case or could they make use of the extra space that a case requires by having larger batteries, etc.

This. I don't want to use 3mm of leather to stop my phone wobbling on its stupid camera-lens tumor. I'd much rather use 3mm of more battery.

I never get a phone case. I’ve dropped my iPhone XS I don’t know how many times. Not a single scratch or crack on it. Pro tip: needing a case is a marketing gimmick “it’s made of glass!”

Which negates the point of buying a small phone.

Yeah, I don't get why phones have to be as thin and fragile as possible. They look gorgeous, but are so flimsy you need to hide them in an ugly case that undoes all the work in making them thin and pretty.

In some ways, the best design is still my old Motorola Milestone. Rubberized steel, and indestructible. No case needed. Small, better looking than anything in a case, and it had a sliding keyboard to boot. I still miss that.

Smartphones these days look more likely jewellery than any sort of practical device.

I have an Essential phone and couldn't agree more. While we're at it, can it be e-ink? And have the processing power of a 2004 phone? And a headphone jack? I just want less phone overall.

There would probably be a market for a truely “essential” smart phone as you mentioned that’s somewhere in between a feature flip phone and an iPhone. Plus a battery that lasts for a week (depending on call usage I guess?).

Probably a business opportunity there.

call it "justaphone" and testify!

Or "POP" for Plain Old Phone

We are making that at Symmitree(.com) but for the refugee / aid market.

Rugged, 4 day battery, repairable, stripped down OS/app store for << $100

Kinda been enjoying using the prototype as a daily driver over my iPhone

That's interesting. I hope it succeeds.

Who were you thinking for the end point partner (which retails/delivers the devices)? Possibly with governments or NGOs or local marketplaces?

Maybe you could help finance it with a western version of a stripped down smartphone. But that seems to be a significant shift from what your vision/offering is. It's best to do one thing at a time.

Isn't that basically Tom's shoes' business model?

I wonder if batteries are still being made for the GSM phones from just before the iPhone came out. They might work, and are probably available on fleaBay.

Hopefully GSM isn't going the way of AMPS anytime soon.

2G is already turned off in Australia and being phased out elsewhere (they need the spectrum for 5G and 6G). 3G is the minimum available.

2g is basically disabled in the US. Go out in the country, signal will be atrocious. Anything outside of a metro seems to require walkie talkies now. I've tried att, vz, tmobile, and sprint, but there's a nice spot I liked to go fishing where I could make phone calls up until ~2008 or so. Traveling around recently I've noticed this anytime I was in an area that had <5000 population.

In the US, GSM (ie 1G and 2G) are already more or less gone; 3G (UMTS) is in the midst of the shutdown process.

In the EU, however, it looks like Vodafone intends to provide 2G through at least 2025.

https://www.multitech.com/documents/publications/marketing-g...

This is pretty much exactly what the Light Phone 2 is, specifically designed to not be a constant distraction machine that the modern smartphone is.

I just want better control over the processor. I'd be happy with a modern processor, running at 10% clock speed and 50% voltage or less. I had a sony phone back in the early days of android where after rooting I could actually tune the processor parameters, and I went from 1 to 4-5 days battery life. I haven't been able to find a way do it on my current phone due to lack of root.

I don't care about having a super responsive phone, or a thin one. Just a utility. Something like the ulephone armor series but without the sketchy bloatware.

My kingdom for a phone with stock Android and a 4.7" display.

Get an XZ1 Compact and put a GSI on it. I gave in and got an S10e which is only slightly larger but is all screen.

If memory serves, when the XZ1 Compact came out in the US, it was severely handicapped in some way, although memory escapes me as to why. Something like the fingerprint reader inside the power button was disabled due to a lawsuit, and the camera was awful if you went off the stock OS that Sony shipped.

Real pity. I held the phone in my hands at a Best Buy and got incredibly close to buying it.

My last Sony phone was the Z5 Compact, which was the first and last Sony phone in the US to have a fingerprint sensor until they cleared that legal mess up.

I ditched it for the Pixel 2 (and now 4) eventually; Sony's software got worse and slower with every update, and the phone would heat up for seemingly no reason. The camera was really good, but I couldn't install a custom ROM without crippling it due to DRM junk.

As much as the Pixels aren't perfect, and the physical size of them is not what I'd like (I'd really like something like a 4"-4.2" screen), they've at least been consistent in build and software quality (to the point where I haven't been motivated to flash a custom ROM), and the cameras have been wonderful.

> the camera was awful if you went off the stock OS that Sony shipped

I would have bought that phone if not for this issue. (I can’t remember why the stock OS was unacceptable, even before purchase)

> the camera was awful if you went off the stock OS that Sony shipped.

Thankfully they stopped that bullshit , including on this very model in their Android Pie update.

I look periodically to see if anything has changed.

https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2018&fDisplay...

Nope. Literally seven phones, with the search just limited to sub 5" diagonal, Android 9 or 10, and a release in the last two years.

My phone now is an Xperia X Compact. Based on that list of seven the Xperia XZ2 Compact would be my next choice. Which actually looks like a fine phone, but not much of an upgrade versus what I already have. And it's from 2018 anyway, feels kind of silly to upgrade from a phone from 2017 to a phone from 2018 in 2020.

Librem... if you're listening... I'll pay extra for a phone that's under a 5" diagonal. You can quote me on that and call it a pre-order.

I don't have market research to back it up, but I do hear more and more people basically saying they haven't bought a new phone in years because they're all too big. Do they not include people who wear women's clothing in their market testing?

Don't filter by screen size, filter by physical size instead (phones are getting ever better in screen/size ratio). I also filter by RAM>3GB: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2018&nHeightM...

Those interested in small phones are usually looking for one-handed operation and zero-width bezels are not the right tool for that.

Your search is broken for some reason. It doesn't find this phone that works on T-Mobile unlocked and is smaller than that https://www.gsmarena.com/palm_palm-9290.php

Wow, those reviews... people really hate that phone. The battery is so tiny. But yeah, my filter excluded it because it's not updatable to Android 9 or higher.

I agree that's not an important filter per se, but it does filter out the stuff that's got sub-par hardware or tons of manufacturer installed apps or vendors that don't provide quick updates. At least somewhat. I'd be nervous getting that phone, though it looks really great other than the battery... and reviews...

I'll just wait until it exists again, it's inevitable. Until then, I hope my phone stays healthy.

I'm in a similar boat. What are your thoughts on the Samsung Z flip?

I like my S10e. I got the 256GB because I have lots of music and video. Works nicely when it is plugged into a monitor.

try the nokia android one phones

Those all look huge. The Moto X is the last phone I've owned that I found to be an acceptable size. Compared to that, the Nokia lineup is enormous. https://phonesized.com/compare/#1192,359,1105

Edit: That same site has these tables, which show that there really are zero phones in that form factor on the market https://phonesized.com/charts/

My Pixel 3 is small and I can text and hold it using one hand with no problem.

https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_3_specs

Sadly not actually small. I have a Pixel 3A right now and I hate it, it's way, way too big. What I need is something where I can reach the top of the screen (notifications, Firefox URL bar and tab controls, other controls) while using one hand, without loosening my grip on the phone. This worked fine up to about 4.7" screens. Beyond that and it's just impossible.

Agreed. I happen to have my old Moto X handy; I stuck it to my fridge to access OurGroceries, and it's still working fine at the ripe age of 7.

The 3A is nearly an inch taller than the original Moto X: https://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Motorola-Moto-X,Go...

As you say, that makes it awkward to use the phone one-handed. I'd definitely buy something more the Moto X size if it were otherwise equivalent.

I use the Firefox Preview Nightly that provides the option to have a bottom URL bar.

I wish notifications and controls where down to like they are in my KDE.

I think people just have different standards here, which should be no surprise (different hand sizes!). I found the Pixel 2 (and 4, which is nearly the same physical size despite the larger screen) to be tolerable, but nowhere near ideal. I like to one-hand my phone, often feel like reaching for things with my thumb comes close to a hard drop to the floor.

I think my sweet spot was the old Nexus 4.

Go to GSM Arena and plug in your max dimensions. Leave the screen size alone since modern small bezel phones pack more screen into a smaller package.

I have a Nokia 3.1 with Android One. Screen-rotate broken, or fixed again, on successive system updates. Currently broken. Other than that, the 3.1 has been okay.

The Droid Mini remains my favorite smart phone I've purchased. Even its current run speed isn't a deal-breaker- it's the lack of battery replacements and security patched android that keeps me from still using it. If a modernized phone came out in the same form factor, I'd buy it day 1.

That's exactly how I (reluctantly) became an iPhone user. The iPhone SE was the only decent phone with a smaller form factor, so I had to make the switch from Android.

Sadly iPhone SE has been discontinued by Apple and is no longer a decent phone tbh. I can’t recommend it.

There are rumors of a new iPhone SE 2 coming later this year[0]. If true it might be right up the gp's alley.

[0]:https://www.techradar.com/news/iphone-se-2

Macrumors is guessing this 4.7” “iPhone SE 2” might come out in March.

https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/iphone-se/

iPhone 8 is your best bet.

Recently switched from an iPhone 8 to a 11 Pro, which is smaller than the standard 11, and it`s pretty close size-wise but a bit thicker.

I've been liking the Nokia 1 I recently bought.

When my girlfriend's Galaxy S4 Mini finally died, we looked high and low for a good replacement, but didn't find anything good under 5 inches of screen.

In the end, we decided to find a phone that was at least not too wide, so it could still be used one-handed. We ended up buying Motorola One Visions for us both, since my Moto X Play was getting rather long in the tooth.

While it is a 6.3" screen, the bezels are rather small and it has a 21:9 aspect ratio, so it doesn't feel clunky at all, it falls naturally in my average-sized hands.

Overall we are both very pleased. It's afforable, plenty fast (especially now with Android 10) and it's on the Android One program, so you get stock Android with a few Motorola features on top, no bloat and great battery life. It's a damn good midrange phone.

I would kill for an updated iPhone 4 or even an SE.

Seconded. I downgraded from a 6S plus to an SE and bought some fresh ones when the line was discontinued. Best form factor if you ask me.

Rumor is there's an SE2 on the way https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2020/02/04/apple-ip...

part of that rumor is that it will still be larger than the current SE model... 4.7" IIRC (the article I think says that towards the bottom).

info I saw said it was same size as iPhone 6 which is noticeably larger than the SE

yeah, the 6 is 4.7", which it appears will be the size of the "SE2". this is apparently the smallest phone any major manufacturer is capable of making, even though just a few short years ago, 4" was the latest and there was enough demand for hundreds of millions to be manufactured. hrm...

The screen size would be the same as the 6, but with smaller bezels it could easily fit into the SE's form factor.

Yeah, I snapped up an SE just after it was discontinued figuring it might be my last chance at that form factor.

Currently on SE too. It is a decent phone and I think I'll have it for a while...

Writing this on my Sony Xperia Z5 Compact. It's nice and small and plenty powerful and I hope it keeps running forever. Phones on the market now are all way too big.

Correction: XZ1 compact. My Z5 compact stopped working. They have such confusing model names.

The phone was skinnier but not shorter, and I do have to move my hands up and down to use a TV remote properly.

If it was iPhone 5 length that would be another matter entirely.

Light 2 and Jelly might be your best options. Or maybe a refurbished SE.

This is also a viable option for you: http://justine-haupt.com/rotarycellphone/

Absolutely! I still hang on to my Sony Xperia Compact Z3 for this very reason.

If you're us, I hope you don't need to travel outside of cities much. That was my last phone, most newer built or refurbished towers rely on bands it can't support. I loved it until I moved to a smaller, newer city, and was constantly running into dead zones because of it. Most of my received calls went straight to voicemail because the towers couldn't reach me.

No, I am in EU.

I gave up after my second Nexus 4 died and now use an 8" tablet with a sim card in it for everything.

I've no particular desire to go back given current phone sizes for anything with decent oomph.

You can. You just can't buy a small flagship phone.

Yes, this also drives me nuts. I want a phone that has a screen around 5.5 or 5 in. Not 6+.

sony's xz1 compact is the perfect size for me. I still have it as a backup phone but I had to upgrade to sansung's s10e to get a decent camera. its a bit of a joke that this is supposed to be the small version

https://www.unihertz.com/jelly-pro

edited for better link

Android 7? Uh, no.

They updated to 8.1 and I got a security update not many months ago.

It's a fine phone for some people. It runs the apps I need to run and is tiny, and timewaste apps are unattractive. BUT the battery lifetime.

https://rant.gulbrandsen.priv.no/jelly is verbiage about.

>They updated to 8.1 and I got a security update not many months ago.

That's still pretty bad considering phones from as far back as 2014 are getting Android 9 through LineageOS (nightly builds, up to date Android security patch level).

How?

Take the Moto G4 Play, for example. One of my daughters has one, so I care, and it's listed on the LineageOS site. How do I get an up to date Android security patch level for that?

Or the Redmi Note 3 or Sony Z5C, both also in the device list at lineageos.org. I don't care, those aren't in use, but how would I get new security patches?

None of the phones you listed are on the build roster, because they're unmaintained. If you go on the wiki page for them, there's a warning saying

>Warning: The Sony Xperia Z5 Compact is no longer maintained. A build guide is available for developers that would like to make private builds, or even restart official support.

However, if you look at this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bx6RvTCEGn5zA06lW_uZ..., there are plenty of phones released in 2014 that are still actively maintained. Those phones tend to be flagships, which explains why the phones you've listed aren't being maintained.

One of them was the most expensive phone available of its size at the time. Isn't that what flagship means?

Anyway, I think you're being facetious. Three or five years ago you couldn't say which phones would be supported today, and right now you have no idea which of this year's phones are going to have lineageos updates in 2025. Right?

>One of them was the most expensive phone available of its size at the time. Isn't that what flagship means?

I'm assuming you mean the Sony Z5 Compact? On the Z5 line, there's also Z5 and Z5 premium, which suggests that it's not really a flagship. That said, being a flagship doesn't mean automatic lineageos support. It's due to a multitude of factors, but one of the necessary factors appears to be flagship.

>Anyway, I think you're being facetious. Three or five years ago you couldn't say which phones would be supported today, and right now you have no idea which of this year's phones are going to have lineageos updates in 2025. Right?

You're right, it's impossible to know for sure, especially since it's a community supported project and all. However, you can look to the past and have some sense of what support might look like in the future. Oneplus phones for instance, has consistent support all the way back to their first phone (one).

In the context of this discussion though, my point still stands. If a bunch of hobbyists (most phones are maintained by a couple of people) can keep a phone phone updated to Android 9 with monthly security patches, a for-profit company being able to push out Android 8 updates every few months isn't special.

The Z5 premium was about 40% bigger than the Z5 Compact. The Z5 Compact was by far the most expensive of the phones of its size, if you're going to talk about flagships it has to be the phone you mean.

I thought about it while I was out cycling now. Your "pretty bad" seems to refer to:

1. All smartphones that aren't phablets.

2. And all phablets that aren't the manufacturer's most expensive phablet.

3. And also the majority of the few phablets that remain.

Here's a t-shirt for you: https://www.google.com/search?hl=eo&q=t-shirt%20everything%2....

iPhone 11? Pixel 3?

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