Comment by partiallypro | Hacker News Reader

Comment by partiallypro | Hacker News Reader

Slightly off topic...but I recently had a Facebook page removed from Facebook for copyright violations. Though I had an agreement with the copyright holder to use their content/logo, etc. I reached out to that copyright holder...and they didn't file the complaint. So I made an appeal to Facebook, with the paperwork showing I had an agreement (in this case with a German soccer club) to use their logo, etc and they (Facebook) didn't even reply to me at all. Incredibly frustrating experience. I've reached out multiple times, through the appeal process, and through emails. No one even cares, and worse I created a new page similar to that page...and Facebook unpublished it. So, now I am stuck in limbo or can likely never have that page back or similar pages...all because Facebook is black hole and doesn't care even slightly. I get that they have billions of users, but so do a lot of companies, and they will at least reach back out to you and give you a status...even if the answer is "too bad." This happened almost 3 weeks ago now. Nothing.

BTW, the page is non-commercial and doesn't profit from anything.

Thats not off topic, in fact it actually helps add depth to the original post that this is an automation problem common to Google and Facebook and potentially other mega cash-generating corporations who would rather err on the side of the copyright holders than risk getting themselves sued for not being strong enough with their automated protection.

I think at some point the owners of pages who have been wronged like this need to band together and form some sort of lawsuit for the damages the copyright system caused.

Facebook will start caring if there’s the potential for a legal precedent to be set against their copyright filtering software

Why keep yourself in a position where you have to ask FB for permission to speak?

Vote with your feet. Build a website FB doesn't control.

But then when you see the cost difference between just removing the content, and potentially getting sued, you'll do the same thing. There needs to be a legal solution to this. A balance can be found, the current system is broken.

Sounds like the EU bureaucrats should sharpen their knives again, otherwise there is no justice for the little guy.

> Sounds like the EU bureaucrats should sharpen their knives again, otherwise there is no justice for the little guy.

Au contraire, the EU is demanding automatic copyright filters (also known as censorship machines). Don't mistake EU doing one good thing – GDPR – for EU always taking the side of the little guy.

https://edri.org/censorship-machine-takes-over-eu-internet/

My hot take: Automatic copyright filters help the little guy if implemented correctly, because then independent and established content creators both have the ability to shove stuff into Content ID and other filtering systems. Right now you need to be in the Big Boys Club to get access to Content ID, and once you have it you can do whatever you want. This bias is possible in part because it isn't a regulated program, it's just the result of back-door deals between Google and other companies.

Of course, automatic copyright filters are a complete disaster for multiple reasons, but establishing them universally via regulation in a way that doesn't favor big corporate players is a lot better than the ones we have right now. The ideal is to abolish them entirely.

One of the biggest problems with Content ID is that Google seems to make no effort to verify actual ownership before allowing claims to be made, so you can trivially steal other people's content without being penalized. If filtering happens at a regulatory level, it could be tied in with the system for registering copyrights, at which point anyone can utilize the system by registering their work and you have an easier way to resolve disputes over claims (is this copyright registration valid or not? is the match correct?) vs the current YouTube mess.

Your "if implemented correctly" is but one of the big non-starters in the argument for upload filters, that's plain and simple not going to happen. And not only from a technical perspective...

In legislations like ours in Germany copyright registration isn't really a thing for most arms of copyright related topics, rights on creative works are rather complicated in general and even with the EU subject to local laws. So there's hardly anything to tie into really.

And from the viewpoint of "helping the little guy/gal" it seems that all recent legislation worked against that, e.g. here most of these issues were delegated to commercial interest groups that just flat out deny smaller content creators like YouTubers or bloggers.

Even if they could upload content, then you have the same content in there twice and need to bake on another layer that's likely broken.

To me it honestly seems that no amount of good will legislation in this space that mandates anything close to upload filters will ever turn out benefitial to smaller players in the space.

"it seems that all recent legislation worked against that" is blatantly untrue. The DMCA functions for individuals and Content ID does not, which is part of why big players wanted Content ID: it favors them.

I agree that it's very hard for legislation to fix this problem, but I think people are too eager to claim that legislation is unable to help small players when the situation is far more nuanced. Well-crafted legislation in this area could help a lot, but content filters aren't it.

I was referring to legislative changes that are currently either in the works or being discussed in Germany as a response to the upload filter proposals based on EU requirements.

Only have a German link at hand but it's definitely not helping the little folks, e.g. this breakdown was cited with the remark "bloggers don't even make the cut to appear in the statistics". https://www.golem.de/news/leistungsschutzrecht-so-viel-geld-...

I'm by no means arguing that legislation wouldn't help, I'm honestly of the opposite opinion. I just see content/upload filters as a bad idea and broken by design, apologies if I didn't get that across in the previous comment.

Government intervention (draconian copyright laws) is how we got here in the first place.

governments not acting is however not going to fix it

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