Hacker News Reader

Comment by bob33212 | Hacker News Reader

A decent percentage of people put food on the table and a roof over their head by doing a job we could classify as needless

View on HN

That's part of the case for universal basic income.

There's no reason to have half of the workforce participating in work that makes them seem busy but does not have any real usefulness.

Another reason why work shouldn't be a precondition for being alive.

I think that would be a sensible change.

Yet it's work that funds the taxes that would pay for basic income.

Unless people are willing to take a massive decrease in quality of life to fund such a system, it will never happen.

Your statement isn't true in the US. The wealthiest in this country don't really do any work.

In fact, the wealthier you are, the less you actually have to work.

The people who are working for a wage are the ones who are working to live, and the wealthiest don't have to do that. Often, people who work the hardest make the least.

I reject your premise that that people will have a reduced quality of life. These taxes will go to public services and increase the quality of life for the masses instead of for the few.

Creating value requires some combination of labor and capital.

Take away any return on capital and that capital goes elsewhere.

> Take away any return on capital and that capital goes elsewhere.

Currently, this capital is going to the überwealthy where it remains there and is hoarded there, providing no "value" to society.

Hoarded? Jeff Bezo’s billions are tied up in Amazon. That’s providing no value?

No wealthy people are keeping their cash under their mattress. It’s actively invested and providing capital for future growth.

> Hoarded? Jeff Bezo’s billions are tied up in Amazon. That’s providing no value?

Yes, hoarded. You're really bringing up Amazon?

You're talking about the same Amazon that paid no federal taxes last year? I paid more taxes than Amazon did. The same Amazon that encourages a work environment where their warehouse employees wear diapers [0]? The same Amazon that forces its employees to work around a dead body [1]?

Amazon itself started by exploiting USPS.

Amazon is a leach on society. Amazon gets tax breaks to build warehouses where their employees face horrendous working conditions. Tax money that could be used to provide better services not only to their workers, but to the rest of us.. You know, real value.

[0]: https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17243026/amazon-warehouse...

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/17/amazon-wa...

Please stop spreading misinformation. Amazon paid $1.2B in taxes.[1] The net negative tax number was an estimate that doesn't capture their actual payments.

So that means Amazon didn’t spend any money on income taxes in 2018? No. Even though Amazon’s “current provision” number for 2018 was negative for federal taxes, Amazon said it made income-tax payments totaling $1.2 billion during that year, more than from 2011 through 2016 combined.

[1]https://www.wsj.com/articles/does-amazon-really-pay-no-taxes...

Non-productive work can't fund anything. It can be an arrangement used to move wealth (generated by actually productive work) around, but it's obviously a glaringly inefficient way to do so. The only reasons why it's preferred are cultural and political, not economic.

And there was many people putting food on the table by hauling ice, but neither of those things should impair progress.

And that's an adequate justification for polluting the environment?

In other words: a society predicated on working is obsolete and needs to be replaced.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com