Comment by FooBarWidget | Hacker News Reader

Comment by FooBarWidget | Hacker News Reader

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Look, I understand that you don't like China, but your claims are wildly exaggerated.

> They covered it up for months and silenced any medical professionals that attempted to warn the rest of the world.

Here's the timeline: https://miro.medium.com/max/3584/1*r-ddYhoUtP_se6x-NOEinA.pn... (see parent post: https://medium.com%2F@medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act...)

Dec 26: 4 unusual cases detected

Dec 31: reported to Chinese CDC, reported to WHO (confirmed by New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-timeline.html)

5 days to report the case to national authorities and to the WHO.

Okay, there are sources out there that state that the first case may be from as early as mid-November. But come on: it's a new virus. They had no idea what this is until late December. It's literally recognizing a needle in a haystack while not knowing that there's a needle. What can you reasonably expect from them?

> The press has also recently tried to float the conspiracy theory that the US government planted the virus in Wuhan back in October.

That's not what China claims.

China says this is a possibility that the virus naturally originated from the US. Huge difference from "planting". This claim is based on DNA research of the virus, as well as timing:

1. The US seems to have older generations of the virus than China. How I have no idea how they identify virus generations but supposedly it is possible to see this in the DNA. Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable can fill in.

2. The start of the virus coincided with some military games event where the US army visited Wuhan.

China is not saying the US engineered and planted the virus. It is saying the virus might naturally have started in the US, where it went undetected and brushed away as an abnormally bad flu season.

Now, this is still very much speculation and there's no hard evidence, I will give you that. But the US CDC isn't exactly doing a good job with investigating the general situation in the US population. This claim by China is easily refuted so why isn't the US doing it?

Again: I get that you dislike China, but that's no reason for throwing exaggerated or wrong accusations around.

> China says this is a possibility that the virus naturally originated from the US. Huge difference from "planting". This claim is based on DNA research of the virus

Their theory doesn't hold : if the virus first started in the US there should have been loads of cases of "flu", hospitals flooded with patients etc like we saw in China and see in Europe now.

In absolute this virus is not that deadly (what's a few thousand more deaths for a country ?), what makes it so problematic is the massive number of people needing intensive care for up to a month.

I think the Chinese are trying to counter the bad propaganda they're receiving from the West so that they're not held accountable for it in the eyes of the rest of the world.

I hear this line a lot "Countering bad propaganda", but I don't see the bad propaganda anywhere.

For example, it is extremely seldom mentioned in the U.S. media that the virus emerged at a location very close to a lab that was researching hybridized SARS viruses, and the true origin of the virus is still unknown. It is known that the origin was not the seafood market.

Yet, on the other side, you have high level Chinese government officials spreading completely unfounded theories that the virus originated in the U.S., and threatening to withhold pharmaceuticals unless the U.S. apologizes to and thanks China.

Honestly I think that this strategy will backfire for China. If the Chinese government continues to act this aggressively, it will stir up absolute rage in the minds of the American public against China, where now there is virtually none.

I also think the "virus originated from US" is far-fetched given the available evidence (though I still think "virus didn't originate in China" is at least still plausible -- and even important to research for the sake of public health).

However, you're saying that the US media "seldomly" mentions that the virus originated close to the Wuhan virus lab? I see the "virus escaped from Wuhan lab" speculation being thrown on the US social media all over the place. There's even a senator that spared no effort to spread this "news".

I'm absolutely not saying that the Chinese speculation of the virus originating from the US is any better. But let's not pretend that the US is the "better man" here.

> Yet, on the other side, you have high level Chinese government officials spreading completely unfounded theories that the virus originated in the U.S.

I see very prominent American political figures giving interviews on national Cable news channels spreading the theory about the virus escaping from a Chinese lab.

> If the Chinese government continues to act this aggressively, it will stir up absolute rage in the minds of the American public against China, where now there is virtually none.

Most of the messaging the Chinese government puts out, especially in English, could not in any way be characterized as "aggressive." They've been putting out some interesting documentaries about the fight against the epidemic in Wuhan, as well as feel-good reports about the aid they're sending to foreign countries. I do see a lot of "aggressive" American rhetoric going in the other direction, however. Case in point: the way that high-ranking members of the Trump administration insist on referring to CoVID-19 as a "Chinese virus."

Beyond that, there's been a crazy amount of anti-Chinese sentiment stirred up in the US, ever since the beginning of the trade war.

There was an official statement that said that they could cut off pharmaceuticals and "Let America drown in the sea of Coronavirus."

Seeing that statement changed my opinion of China.

I am curious about the exact statement. Do you have a link?

http://www.xinhuanet.com/2020-03/04/c_1125660473.htm

Thanks for the link.

The statement is prepended by a big “if” though, and is not a declaration of something that will definitely happen. “If we refuse to give medication to the US then they will drown in a sea of coronavirus”.

The statement is also preceded by complaints about how the US has been unfairly attacking China during the virus crisis.

I understand that you are not happy about this “threat”, or even this “potential of retaliation”. My opinion though is that the US is not altogether innocent in this. It would be best for everyone if this trade war and this “maximum pressure on China” policy ends.

Threatening to withhold medication during a pandemic that originated in China is beyond the pale. What precisely is the U.S. guilty of again?

This comment sums it up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22611017

I don't agree with the Trump administration's tone, but factually, the virus is from China, specifically Wuhan. Many viruses, bacteria, and other diseases are named for their place of origin.

Even if you don't believe that the virus came from the Wuhan lab, the other reasonable explanation is that it came from the human consumption of either a bat or a pangolin. The consumption of these animals was implicated in the outbreak of SARS, and China did not put a stop to the practice. Either way, the Chinese government bears significant responsibility for the situation we're in.

So the Chinese response to referring to the virus by its place of origin is to threaten to withhold pharmaceuticals that potentially millions of lives depend on in the U.S.

If "The Chinese people's feelings are hurt", we can no longer rely on them to do anything. In fact, if their feelings are hurt, they are prepared to kill millions of Americans as revenge.

Obviously this is not a trading partner that can be relied on to provide anything more important than cheap plastic crap we buy at Wal-Mart.

I am not disputing whether Wuhan is the first major outbreak area. It is. But that is not the interesting part.

> Many viruses, bacteria, and other diseases are named for their place of origin.

This hasn’t been a thing for a long time. H1N1 is not called mexican flu. Ebola is not called congo disease. WHO officially designated Covid19 as the name. There is no reason for US officials to keep calling it china virus other than to stir up hate.

What bothers me more is that you are so focused on blaming China rather than on more productive things, like actually fighting the virus. The 2 months advance warning has been wasted on playing the blame game instead of ramping up production of medical equipment, or other preventative measures. Sigh.

> The consumption of these animals was implicated in the outbreak of SARS, and China did not put a stop to the practice.

Wildlife food is banned now.

> the Chinese government bears significant responsibility for the situation we're in.

What responsibility do you have in mind? Should China dissolve as a country? Should they pay reparations to everyone?

Is there legal precedence to this? How did Mexico and Congo take responsibility for swine flu and ebola? I am not aware of any precedence wrt reparations for a disease outbreak. Maybe you are?

But there is precedence for heavy reparations from a country as a general concept. Germany after WW1. The allied forces blamed everything on the Germans and exploited them. That generated resentment, leading to the rise of Hitler. We know the rest. The lesson here is that playing the blame game too heavily is a dangerous thing.

There is also an anti-reparations case study. Britain and other European powers exploited China in the 19th century. Literally forced the Chinese at gunpoint to become drug addicts. China never asked for reparations for those practices. They don’t blame foreigners, they blame themselves for being weak.

And can you guarantee that at no point in the future will there ever be a disease outbreak that originates from the US? How will you implement this guarantee?

In any case, China is sending aid to Iran, Italy, Spain, Japan and more.

> In fact, if their feelings are hurt, they are prepared to kill millions of Americans as revenge

Withholding help is not the same as killing. Not even in the same ballpark. Nobody is entitled to help from others.

Keep in mind this is China clapping back at senior US administrations forwarding the Wuhan bioweapon theory and Pompeo insisting on referring to the virus as the "Wuhan / Chinese" virus in public statements. This is a dangerous (though not random) escalation. New generations of Chinese diplomats is embracing Trumpian style of propaganda, it's is a large deviation from their traditional messaging. People keep conveniently ignoring that the current US administration set the tenor for the Chinese confrontation and other diplomatic relationships. They'll condemn the lies, tone and disrespect when current admin deals with allies, but embrace it when it comes to China - and are surprised that like US allies, China will eventually assert themselves. At the end of the day, US sentiments is determined by US propaganda, China was never going to win Americans over. This display is for domestic Chinese audiences and seed doubt in other countries.

E: I don't agree with the new direction, but it's something different and not entirely unexpected after 4 years of aggressive US propaganda, things will only get worse unless Pompeo and Trump deescalates. Politiburo has ran out of patience like many US allies, except China is large enough that they can afford to speak their mind and retaliate rhetoric in kind. Keep in mind TPP and Pivot to Asia under Obama was explicitly designed to target China, but anti-Chinese sentiments and nationalism (on both sides) never got out of hand until Trump decided to weaponize it.

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