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Comment by rdouble | Hacker News Reader

I was one of the poor, unprofessional slobs who only made $100K or so in SF and NYC. I thought I was living a pretty good life, but maybe I should be ashamed that I'm not a millionaire CPA (huh?).

Here's a typical programmer bachelor situation.

I made about $6000K after tax and contributions to retirement account in SF and NYC.

car = $0

insurance = $0, paid for by employer

other debts = $0

iPhone = $80

rent = $1000 studio or share

utilities + wifi = $250

metro card/transit pass = $80

You can fudge those numbers a bit for a better apartment/room and maybe zip car or even your own beater car, and you're still usually under $2K. I didn't put food in there because that was highly variable, even for me. I saved $24,000 a year without thinking about it, and still experimented with motorcycles, snowboards, music gear, travel, etc.

You essentially have $4000 - $4500 a month to save or spend on food + whatever you want.

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"rent = $1000 studio or share"

Uh huh. Now, do that when you're 35, with a wife and two kids.

I think it's easy to forget that people in other parts of the country do things like raise families. Also, most people don't generally want to live with roommates past their 20s. It gets old.

I know where you're coming from -- I live a fairly frugal lifestyle, and I'm doing fine while renting an apartment in SF with no wife and no kids. But I'm also in my 30s, and I think I'm on the extreme outer edge of tolerance for the kind of life I'm leading. My friends with children tease me all the time: they wouldn't dream of living the way that I do.

That said, I'd also be going nuts if I lived like I did when I was 25. YMMV, but probably not by much.

If you're married with kids, presumably you have a second income. The great-grandparent poster did figure in $1000/month for childcare. That $6k/month becomes $12k/month if your wife makes as much.

Anyway, my parents raised my sister and I on a single teacher's salary that was a lot less than $100K. Yes, kids do cost more than being a bachelor. However, a lot of the expenses I see batted around as justification for why you need $100K just to live today are utterly ridiculous. 90% of American households get by with much less than that.

>...Anyway, my parents raised my sister and I on a single teacher's salary that was a lot less than $100K

Sure, when? 15+ years ago?

Also, why would you assume that my SO also makes 100K? She doesnt, as a hair stylist - she makes very little comparatively.

What egregious expenses did I have in my post if anything? The ONLY luxury items I had in my list were a beer with friends and a bottle of wine.

The problem I think we are seeing here is that everyone who thinks that 100K is a lot of money is:

Not/has not been Married

Has no kids

Is under 35

Also, @JasonKester: "wearing monogrammed blazers to school"

You fail to understand that simply having a kid is going to cost you ~1500 in childcare expenses, assuming you dont have a stay at home SO to watch after the child.

Its not a status statement -- try looking up what freaking baby sitters/nannies cost for an infant, whom you cannot slap a monogrammed badge on their blazer and dump them off on the corner.

This is a common problem with YC/HN -- there are a lot of <30-somethings thinking they have it all figured out.

/lawn

But 15 years ago was only 95. I mean, that's not old... that's only....

Dear god. >_<

"Anyway, my parents raised my sister and I on a single teacher's salary that was a lot less than $100K. Yes, kids do cost more than being a bachelor. However, a lot of the expenses I see batted around as justification for why you need $100K just to live today are utterly ridiculous. 90% of American households get by with much less than that."

Yes, they do. In other parts of the country.

What your parents did 20+ years ago has very little bearing on the cost of raising a family in San Francisco, today. It takes more than one spouse with a sub-$100k job. Again, $100k just isn't that much money in a place where rent on a decent one-bedroom starts at $2,000 a month.

Well, I did say it was a bachelor's perspective.

FYI, no one is paying $1,000/month for rent in NYC... At least not anywhere reasonably close to Manhattan.

I shared a 3BR apt in Williamsburg and paid $1000, then moved into a 1BR down the street that was $1500. 12 minutes to Union Square.

I pay 1150 for a one bedroom with a one hour commute to Manhattan via subway.

One hour each way or total?!

One hour each way.

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