iPad Pro is better than any Mac | Hacker News Reader

iPad Pro is better than any Mac

cultofmac.com

15 pointslxm62 comments

Apple agrees too: it's a 100% locked-down computing device.

Since when did geeks abandon the idea that you should be able to execute arbitrary code on a device you own? Not have to ask permission from a multinational company--and accept the answer "no" when the code is deemed too dangerous, subversive, or undercuts their preferred business model.

Because as a geek, I have a computer that can run anything I want. My iPad is an appliance without all of the cruft of computers.

Allowing arbitrary code execution on a consumer device is a recipe for a malware dumpster fire of epic proportions.

You can’t run arbitrary code on a medical device, a car, or a jet aircraft, either. And yet they still work reliably, in no small part because of these restrictions.

iPad is not a jet, it's a general purpose consumer computer. And for some reason I'm not allowed to run a webserver on it, or simply run a background service that does the computations I need without bringing it to the foreground.

No, I don't need manufacturer to tell me that it's for my own good because background tasks waste my battery.

It’s a productivity device for consumers. You can’t trade in your 4x4 diesel truck for a convertible two-seater Miata and expect to haul an Airstream with it (and it would be illegal if you could) just as you can’t expect to run industrial tasks on a personal device. Different tasks for different devices.

If you want to run your own code within the framework of iOS, you can become an Apple registered developer.

The thing is, this "personal device" is quite capable of performing industrial tasks. It has great processing power, communication capabilities, storage and big battery.

The only thing that prevents me from doing that is a set of restrictions imposed on me by Apple, and no, being a "registered developer" won't help me run a webserver on an iPad.

Even Microsoft in their worst phase allowed users to do more with theirs PCs!

Right... Because Macs are malware dumpsters fires of epic proportions.

Not sure what you're talking about. You can run whatever software you want in iOS. You don't even have to have built the app yourself. We do this all the time where I work - we create our own apps we distribute to our employees and we receive apps from vendors that aren't distributed through the app store. Yes it's a different process than we're normally accustomed to but it's certainly doable.

Bottom line - no Apple approval is required to run whatever software you want on an iOS device.

It seems they'd rather take control, than invest in proper solutions. They'd rather compete than collaborate. They'd rather obscure, than truly secure. They're just in it for the jobs and money, not for the long haul.

Fuck that.

Vetting binaries is the proper solution. Apple has never promised that the device could run your garage-built tinkercode, root kits, etc. Read the box before you buy.

The first Apple computer was literally tinkercode built in a garage. Just saying.

Nothing saying you can't still vet binaries, or better yet, the source itself.

So you inspect the source code of everything you run? Did you find the HeartBleed bug that was in open source code for over 18 months?

No, surely I don't / didn't. That's not the point at all. Security issues will ALWAYS exist, no matter how many bots at Apple check over the submissions.

But why couldn't Apple open source their automated scanning software so I could run it locally? Why couldn't they publish reports on the state of application ecosystem? Why not release lists of sponsored developers (with signatures)?

A paranoid organization can still not give users root, or install access. And secure OS could in theory not install things without checking them locally.

Problem solved?

Their “automated scanning software” basically just checks for calls to private methods. You don’t call private methods by accident.

I think you've just helped my case.

No the review process is much more than an “automated scanning process”. What was your point?

Many devices you own do not allow you to execute arbitrary code, such as my microwave and toaster.

My toaster is so simple I could probably fix it with a soldering iron and parts I found in the dumpster. What's your point?

People do not (and should not) have an expectation of executing arbitrary code on all devices they own.

I absolutely have an expectation of being able to run arbitrary code on my devices! This is what a general purpose computer is.

If not, how should developers (and hackers) work on stuff then? How should the curious budding programmer get inspired to create?

Moreover, how should the motivated user fix a problem they found that the developers didn't consider? Are they beholden to the powers that be? Should they be?

General purpose computers sparked a revolution of ideas, products, and productivity; now you'd take that away from us! Why?!

Making devices that are not general purpose computers does not take away general purpose computers.

When people start marketing iPads as replacements for notebook PCs, some users are expecting it to be able to do what they could do on their Mac OS or Linux machines.

So whose fault is that - the users or Apple?

Clearly Apple's for trying to sell us on this new vision for computing, which is just plain worse. Sorry.

So people who are suppose to be good with computers aren’t intelligent enough to know how the iOS platform - that’s been out for 13 years - works?

You're losing me in this line of reasoning... I know quite well how iOS works.

The issue is, to make good software, you need users. If everyone is using iOS, there's no $/time/energy left for the others. To make progress with technology we can't be held hostage by our platforms, as Apple would have things.

This is about having both the developers and the users put on the same playing field, and moving forward. Not backwards, like we've been going for years now. Sure there's been some steps in good directions, but ask yourself honestly if technology is truly working for you? Or are you working for technology?

If “everyone” is using iOS - which empirically not true and never will be at the prices Apple charges - have you ever thought that their priorities may be different than yours?

Have you ever thought that iOS users not having to deal with the cruft of modern computing operating systems and the insecurities is progress for them?

I only hear geeks complaining about the “walled garden”. Most people want something that just works.

Right, and last I checked my step dad has just as much trouble with his iPad as with with late Windows computer. He doesn't do a lot with computers. And I'd fathom a guess, it's not just nerds complaining... just look at the music industry, or the news paywalls, but I digress.

Everyone's got an opinion, and they all stink, you know. At least with the general approach, you can swap out opinions at will.

</rant>

Has your step dad had to worry about viruses, malware, adware, and ransomware on his iPad? Has he had to worry about popular video conferencing software installing a web server in the background that reinstalls itself every time you uninstall it (Zoom)?

The “music industry” isn’t complaining about Apple. iTunes and now Apple Music gives more money back to artists than its competitors.

What do news paywalls have to do with Apple?

As far as revenue, the App Store generates more revenue than the more “open” Play Store even though Apple has less than a fifth of the market share.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

The forest for someone who wants to make money as a developer is go where people are the most willing to pay - the Apple App Store.

The forest for most people - who aren’t developers and even for those who just want a device that works - is mobile.

It's not people executing arbitrary code vs. them not getting access to apps outside the ecosystem, or that some apps are really privileged over others, making it a very unfair competition.

Similarly, most people aren't going to be reading the documented output that comes from various gov't institutions, but they're not missing the impact of individual documents as opposed to the aggregate products that emerge from such information.

Seriously? Why? Do you have any reason justifying this statement?

It would be more accurate to say that the desired customer for these devices has no expectation of running arbitrary code on these devices.

Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad, but they’re not going to deviate from their plans to accommodate you, either.

> Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad

Um... Apple makes the iPad, I'd sure hope they aren't trying to stop me from buying it. You could leave this whole sentence off.

So you're just saying that it's about accommodation, which I think it where the argument lies. Who's to say what's accommodating the users better? Apple? The market?

Since we drive the market, I think hearing the opinions of developers, hackers (any kind), and common users is all valuable. A balance must be struck, and I'd say that the current version of iOS does not strike this balance as a replacement for a traditional computer, making Apple's claim false.

I’m saying you’re not the user the devices are targeted toward. There are far more people who want to do things that don’t have a need to run arbitrary code than there are people who do. You seem to be assuming that everyone wants to be like you and tinker with things, but I assume exactly the opposite.

These are devices for service consumption, not for service development, or really, any other kind of development, beyond the superficial.

That's fine. That's the whole point of the word "general" in general purpose computer. It's good for me, it's good for you, it's good for us all! Rejoice, at the wisdom of our forefathers.

This is a bad example if you consider that microwaves and toasters are to food as computers are to code.

These kitchen appliances aren't marked as running code at all, but they do accept food as input and produce cooked food as output just as computers accept program code as input and produce running software.

That I can put many different types of food and breads into my microwaves and toasters (I am only limited by the capacity of the hardware) means that these appliances are actually much more like general purpose computers than they are like a locked-down iPad.

One kitchen appliance that I think we can aptly relate to an iPad is the line of Keurig coffee machines that will only work with Keurig brand K-cups.

Well, this analogy is not useful.

The point is that it is okay for some devices to not run arbitrary code. There is no reason the iPad really needs to do that, other alternatives are available and most people do not need or want them.

Building things requires tradeoffs, and the iPads make a reasonable tradeoff here.

No one considers a microwave or toaster to be a general computing device. The iPad is at least marketed as one.

I still think a tablet is a fundamentally worse form factor than a laptop for most tasks.

Such as what I am doing right now, typing while sitting on the couch. Even that cool new keyboard case seems like it would be unwieldy in this scenario.

And when watching a movie, a laptop holds itself up with no accessories – useful pretty much any time you are watching something.

My pixelbook strikes a great balance there. At 2.4 pounds, it's pretty light. The ipad weighs in at 1.5 pounds, but the keyboard adds back in most of that weight. I can run all the Android things and do "arbitrary code execution" with Linux as well. The tablet experience is pretty good overall too (not that I find myself wanting to use it that much).

With the big screens and high resolutions on modern phones, all I use my iPad for is Netflix in bed, pretty much. Youtube before phone screens got large-ish. I don't want a tv in my bedroom, takes too much space, cables and dust and all that.

How do you hold it up without your arms getting tired?

Uhm. I grew up reading in bed at night so I'm just very strong.

Agreed.

Though a proper hybrid could exist (maybe already does, and I just haven't seen it). The key is that it works just like a normal laptop, but I can detach the screen somehow. The main challenge with this is of course, the battery.

Yes, or in bed, or sitting with legs crossed.

I'm not ready to replace any of my computers with the iPad unless I'm allowed to freely install and run any apps I need, and run them constantly in the background, not relying on APNS for push notifications to wake apps from sleep.

False.

Even though macOS is deteriorating in my eyes, at least it's still an OS I kinda control, and can do with as I please. I challenge anyone developing systems software to use this new iPad as a replacement for their Mac.

You can even install Linux to replace MacOS X.

I haven't had a Mac in a while now... how well does Linux still work on Mac hardware? I'd expect some features to be difficult. Does WiFi and Sleep mode still work at least? Other basic features?

Ubuntu derivatives have an amazing support of Mac Hardware, sometimes works even better.

https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-...

Adding the [opinion] to this title would be helpful.

It's a thought provoking discussion, but one that I don't feel has changed much since the first iPad Pro came out in 2016. Its software really impedes "traditional computer" workflows, despite having really impressive leaps in hardware.

A more accurate title, if I was to write this article, is "It's pretty amazing how capable and powerful the iPad has become". But comparing to the Mac, even when it ticks every single hardware box, still continues to fall very short as a Mac replacement.

What about software? Do we get a terminal app? Can we install Docker?

> But the iPad Pro comes with a 120Hz Liquid Retina display with ProMotion technology, which can also slow down to show movies at 30 frames per second, as the movie gods intended.

Movies are recorded at 24. If it were 30, there wouldn't be a need for a 120hz display to show movies without judder or adaptive refresh.

It frustrates me to no end that this perfect piece of hardware is so shackled by software that it's essentially useless to me. It feels like seeing a juicy steak on your plate but once you put a piece of it in your mouth it's just smoke...

If only Apple ported HyperKit over and let us run a fully sandboxed, virtualized ARM userland... iSH is great, but not enough.

If it could just run Mac OS with touch screen clicks that would be sa-weet. Love the form factor

A desktop OS with a touch screen worked so well with Windows....

Actually, it worked out very well for Windows 10. It's the most popular desktop operating system on the market with a global market share of about 40%.

Every top PC manufacturer has a line of touch models and they've been continuing to make new models every year for the past 7 years, so they must be selling...

I think a lot of people just repeat whatever Apple/Steve Jobs said, but if you look - Apple has a long history of poo-pooing things right up until they do it themselves. It's part of their corporate playbook. They switched to Intel CPUs after talking shit about them for decades. They switched to multi-touch after sticking to the single mouse button for so long, citing how more than one button was too complicated for people...

That's what's happening now. Apple is trying to turn their iPad into a Surface. Of course the people who are wanting more freedom than iOS allows are going to be waiting a long time as Apple slowly and carefully adds general computing capabilities (as they have been doing), but in a way that stifles any sort of competition where they don't want it.

I have two Dell 2-1s I use regularly running Windows 10. My personal laptop and my work laptop, and I have a Dell. All the things wrong with Windows 10 as touch OS.

- x86 is very power inefficient. Every benchmark shows that iPad Pros out perform most x86 laptops. iPads get 10+ hours battery life compared to 3-4 hours from both Dell’s when they were brand new.

- Instant On/Standby time. My first gen iPad was still getting standby times of 3 weeks while still getting notifications 5 years in. Of course my 2017 $469 iPad with cellular will go about a month on standby. My laptops? They take forever to wake from sleep and standby time is not nearly as good.

- Windows 10 is nowhere near as memory or CPU efficient as iPadOS. Can you imagine running Windows with 3GB RAM? The lowend surfaces had 4GB of RAM and ran horribly.

- Most Windows apps and parts of the OS itself has still not been rewritten to be touch friendly. Microsoft Office is even a better experience on iPads than Windows using a touch screen.

- Of course Windows on ARM has been a disaster.

- the 16x9 display of my laptop is horrible in portrait and landscape trying to use the onscreen keyboard.

As far as Jobs “talking shit about x86”, Next was already in the process of porting Next to x86 before Apple acquired them. Jobs admitted that they always had a port of OS X on x86.

Also, the Mac supported multiple mouse buttons since MacOS 8.

*for consumers

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