The Medieval Invention of Toilet Paper | Hacker News Reader

The Medieval Invention of Toilet Paper

medievalists.net

57 pointsvo2maxer30 comments

So, I went here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper

which then lead me here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylospongium

Eastern latrines: the water and the dipper. Very informative!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKkryfdtMNQ

> To clean the sponge, they simply washed it in a bucket with water and salt or vinegar.[2] This became a breeding ground for bacteria, causing the spread of disease in the latrine.

Seems like we might not want to switch to that anytime soon.

Nowadays, it could be personally owned by each (so, not shared) and also the cleaning could be done with clear water and soap.

I don't know if this has been asked before but: Why does so much of the world use toilet paper?

Especially given the cost in manufacturing, the cost of buying it, and the dependence that comes on using a product that may go out of stock.

Obviously I'm a bidet person, but I'm just trying to build a better understanding.

If I had to guess, it is similar to why people spend small fortunes on diamonds - despite being a horrible financial decision and having superior/cheaper alternatives, a series of a societal pressures (mainly advertising, at this point) has resulted in people making a behavioral decision that is far less than optimal based on any reasonable metric. Also, people are bad at changing habits. Really bad. And as ridiculous as it is, a huge portion of the US thinks bidets are for the French, gays, and women... all of which are thought of as pejoratives. I am not as familiar with the ignorances and stupidities of other countries.

I don't think bidets are standard in the US and still need a water hookup, which is a small but definable barrier. TP is cheap, viewed from a short-term cost.

There are cheap bidets that don't need any electrical hookup, and install with a splitter on the water hookup for the toilet itself. It's just a cultural thing.

Not all appartement have enough room to put a bidet in each bathroom? At least it's been the case in most bathroom I've seen.

And TP can still be usable without any running water.

Bidets can be attached directly to the toilet now, it does not need to be separate. Even in a tiny bathroom with almost no wiggle room, they can be added to an existing toilet (speaking from recent experience).

My problem - you need power usually where there isn’t in US bathrooms.

You don't need power for the spray bidet. You can hook it to the toilet's water supply.

I'm a bidet person too and I still use toilet paper.

Despite the higher costs and no higher benefits? Why so?

That said, I've done so when there was no other option. Personally, I didn't feel clean and had to shower the moment I got home.

TMI, but I like my nether regions dry. So I use TP to dry after the bidet. And I won't even claim to use just a few squares -- that's how you end up poking your finger through the paper and then leaving pieces all over your butt ;-).

I honestly think it comes from puritanism.

My guess is that people in general, at least in the US, are afraid that they might get some kind of pleasure from a bidet, and that is scary to them. You can see those elements portrayed, usually comically, in depictions of of bidets in US media.

Seems about right. Just found this:

> Throughout this bidet boom, the United States resisted its appeal, and the reason might have been the power of first impressions. Americans were introduced to bidets on a broad scale during World War II, when troops were stationed in Europe. GIs visiting bordellos would often see bidets in the bathrooms, so they began to associate these basins with sex work. Given America’s puritanical past, it makes sense that, once back home, servicemen would feel squeamish presenting these fixtures to their homeland.

But even before the war, bidets were linked to sex and scandal. In the United States and Britain, when various forms of douching were thought of as a pregnancy preventive, bidets were considered a form of birth control. As Norman Haire, a birth-control pioneer, put it in 1936, “The presence of a bidet is regarded as almost a symbol of sin.” The present-day American sociologist Harvey Molotch agrees, concluding that the devices were tainted with France’s hedonism and sexuality. “Bidets have had such difficulty ... Even all the power of capitalism can’t break the taboo.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/03/the-b...

Habit: It's what I learned as a kid and I'm too freaked out to squirt cold water back there.

When I've traveled to places with bidets, I was too afraid to make a mess, so I didn't try it.

Mostly culture and habit, but I argue against the prevailing wisdom and say it's also more hygienic to use TP. Moving water throws invisible droplets everywhere that can spread bacteria, which is why modern health authorities strongly recommend against washing raw poultry, for instance. For females at least, there's some evidence of bidets not being ideal; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058441

Of course, soap and water should outperform TP, and maybe we should all be using soap.

I'm waiting for the 3 seashells.

flush, bidet, air dry

Parents laughed at me for using toilet paper and having skid marks and dried poop on my bum. They would wash with water and never had the bum problems I had growing up , since I started washing feels much nicer

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