Vulcan Salute (Handshake Alternative, U+1F596) | Hacker News Reader

Vulcan Salute (Handshake Alternative, U+1F596)

en.wikipedia.org

43 pointsdownshun39 comments

If it's suggested as a handshake alternative in the context of human-to-human infections, then probably a namaste[1] is an alternative salutation more widely understood by people around the world.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namaste

Looks like a Christian prayer gesture though!

How many Christians pray without interlacing their fingers?

I was taught at a Christian school (in England) to pray like this.

Me too. I remember being told by a rather stuffy teacher that if you pointed your fingers to the sky, that the prayer would shoot up to heaven! If you interlaced your fingers it would 'bleughhh not go anywhere!'

I was raised Protestant, and there I was taught that the folded hands were to keep you from fidgeting.

I don't get the pointing at the heavens thing, I mean Jesus himself mentioned to basically be humble, not like those guys on the street corners making a bit show of praying.

People who got slapped on their fingers by Nuns for doing that? (Because it's too lazy and you don't have your fingers raised to the Lord, or because that's "the Protestant" way etc.)

I don't think there's a literal "canonical" position, but if you look at old art, the folded, non-interlaced position is definitely more common, with Dürer's depiction being already pretty late to the party.

To add Abrahamic confusion to it all, I think there's also some Rabbinical argument against it (or was it qabbalistic?).

Anyways, we're all wearing masks now anyway, so the appropriate gestures would be the Kuji-kiri.

It's maybe an European thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praying_Hands_(D%C3%BCrer)

Perhaps you’ve got that the wrong way around

What do you mean? I'm just saying that this gesture has a different meaning in a different cultural group, I don't know what would be the other way to get that.

I think this post dropped from view from HN once the religion discussion started. Oh well.

Also the [1][2] "Shaka sign" which is pretty well understood and casual.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_sign [2] https://emojipedia.org/call-me-hand/

It has religious connotations in its original meaning, according to Wikipedia.

It also resembles the "please, I'm begging you" gesture in the US or a general prayer gesture.

I don't live with my girlfriend (she lives 30 miles away, I have my own house with my elderly mum who I look after and she didn't want to be on her own for weeks, and my girlfriend's house is overcrowded as the two older kids are back from Uni, and it's a small 3-bed house so space is at a premium, and there were doubts over if some of the kids had been exposed to Coronavirus), and the last time I saw her was a few weeks ago, after picking up my step-daughter from University and getting her back home.

When I left (we'd still been social distancing even on that day), I did this Vulcan Salute as it reminded me of the end of Wrath of Khan - I was feeling pretty sad as I know I can't be with her for at least a month here in the UK. I'd hoped she would do the same, as it just felt like that moment.

She had NO IDEA what I was referring to, so needless to say it was a bit of a downer at an emotional time!

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not an emotional imbecile, I just picked a bad way to express my feelings at that moment!)

A downer with a silver lining, though. xkcd.com/1053 - Netflix party mode, you get to rewatch all the ToS films.

Somewhat on topic but somewhat tangential, has anyone watched the new Picard series? Would love to get some opinions, especially as it compares to other Star Treks!

I really like how the Zhat Vash borrowed a lot from Dune’s Bene Gesserit, felt like a nice salute to Frank Herbert.

Have not thought about it like that but very true!

Personally I really like it. It's hard to define though.

Somewhat like an on the road travel story with a rag tag team of misfits who join together. I guess a _tiny_ bit like Guardians of the Galaxy rag tag team, on the backdrop of a StarTrek setting lead by a Shakespearean actor with many TNG faves cropping up during the adventure.

Hmm, well, anyways it's worth checking out IMHO ;)

I like it a lot. It's different, yet familiar.

There's a lot less Picard and a lot more young hot peoples' interpersonal drama than I'd like. It also commits STD's cardinal sin of throwing away the basic concept of Star Trek, that being that society as a whole can become better than we are now, that the human condition can be meaningfully improved.

However, the action and characters are good. You just have to tell yourself that it's an alternate timeline where instead of making humans better, first contact turned them all into assholes.

I don't think that's fair. Star Trek has always had a subculture of "assholes" it's just they were exactly that, a subculture.

In Star Wars you had opulent planets with cities and a strong economy and you also had desert planets with pirates and shanty towns. And in Firefly you had the inner planets who were rich and well educated but also the outer planets with cowboys and call girls. Star Trek has always followed a similar narrative where there was a subculture. The difference with Star Trek is that subculture was less visible -- in part due to the evolution of the human spirit (as you mentioned) -- but it was still there.

With Picard, [WARNING very minor spoiler follows], the story has to spend more time mixing around that subculture because the point of series is that this is Picard's mission rather than Starfleet's.

I don't want to spoil ST Picard, so I am just asking if you seen this DS9 episode https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Paradise_Lost_(episode) and what you think about how Federation reacts when it is panicked. IMO ST PIC is showing a similar panicked reaction and if you watch the full show you will see it is optimistic and is very Trek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Pale_Moonlight

A Starfleet officer participates in the assassination of a romulan politician. The enemy is framed for it, resulting in the romulans entering the war on the Federation's side. This episode is the ultimate answer to the notion that Starfleet will always devise some scientific or diplomatic solution that will allow them to keep the moral high ground. No, Starfleet is not above assassinations and political maneuvering.

There's also Section 31 whose existence predates even the Federation. Were it not for the persistence of a few idealistic officers, they would have successfully committed genocide through use of biological weapons by the end of DS9.

> Interesting, isn't it? The Federation claims to abhor Section 31's tactics, but when they need the dirty work done, they look the other way. It's a tidy little arrangement, wouldn't you say?

It's darker and has one big story arc (like Discovery S2) but feels a lot more "Star Trek" than Discovery does. Crucially it doesn't play fast and loose with cannon. There's also a lot of nice touches like cast from TNG and others reprising their roles.

I'm not going to comment on the plot itself because that would be unfair to anyone who hasn't finished watching it yet.

Overall, if you're a Trekkie then I do recommend it.

I personally liked it, it is not a perfect show, there are some issue but with all shows there is a group of hates(I am not referring at people that dislike something but at people that actually enjoy hating something, they watch a show because hate it) so your question could attract such people.

I read on reddit that there is some gift code that you can use to get a month free on CBS on US, you could use that and try the show.

I haven't seen it and don't have any interest in seeing it based on what I've been hearing from friends.

Rich and Mike of Red Letter Media (the "70-minute Phantom Menace review" folks) are big Star Trek fans (in case you've never watched any of their stuff--Mike mentions Star Trek in so many reviews), and they haven't been liking it, to say the least. It's entertaining to watch them torture themselves from watching the show and recounting it.

ep 1: https://youtu.be/hfQdf93e63I

ep 2 & 3: https://youtu.be/GkDmRy6SP28

ep 4 & 5: https://youtu.be/Uv-wmixiiMA

ep 6, 7, 8: https://youtu.be/GyGGW3tqNPY

I’m a huge sucker for anything with spaceships in it.

From that very base perspective, it’s actually quite good.

It entertained me, and I looked forward to each episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reApQlk5JiA Mike Stoklasa Really Likes Star Trek

Bonus RLM compilations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZX2KpCoKFE Jay Bauman the film buff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rh1k2R2rv8 Rich Evans mispronouncing words

Visual styling/consistency handling is so cheap it looks like a 30/70 mix of Trek and Wars(to be fair more of generic scifi than the established Wars theme), a bit painful to watch Patrick Stewart not entirely because he's merely playing an old man, Robots being handled as subhuman class not as Data was in TNG -- weren't they just another intelligent and equal species?, if I may be allowed spoilers no appearance of one key person of TNG...

Last but not least, gave me serious doubts in current Federation leadership for not conducting mass extinction plan of every human with DNA traces of the Soong family, especially those with relevant doctorates, for the safety of our quadrant.

> weren't they just another intelligent and equal species?

This was hotly contested in TNG[1], and it is my belief the issue was never really settled as Data was the only known non-biological humanoid android, and if I recall correctly his sentience was questioned couple more times throughout TNG and DS9, and maybe Voyager too?

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Measure_of_a_Man_(Star_Tre...

> the issue was never really settled as Data was the only known non-biological humanoid android

They couldn't prove Data was sentient. However, the same is true of the humans standing in that room. Aren't humans just machines of a different kind? Aren't our actions determined by the state of our of brains? Given this uncertainty, they decided to give Data his rights because it's better than treating him like a mere machine, experimenting on him, possibly killing him only to discover he was sentient after the fact.

Voyager also addressed hologram sentience and rights. The EMH is easily the most interesting character in that show. At first the crew treated him like a mere tool and wouldn't give him the time of day or even basic respect. He eventually becomes a respected crew member and friend and is trusted to take command of the ship if needed.

The Federation and Starfleet are a lot more corrupt than they seem. They would like the galaxy to think they are englightened but they are prone to reactionary measures that compromise everything they stand for. They allowed Data to join and serve with honors only to treat him like property later. Because people didn't like the original EMH's personality they were essentially condemned to slavery as if they had commited some atrocity. Synthetic life forms attacked Mars so they just banned it all just like they banned genetic manipulation. That totally makes the issue go away, right? That's like issuing a ban on humanity because some of them happened to commit crimes or wage war.

It's a VERY mixed bag. On one hand, it really, really tries to appeal to old Trek fans, even excessively so - I would say without knowledge in the lore, the show is hardly enjoyable. Lots of old, little known characters resurfacing, mending of timeline problems, showing character progression, proper farewells/tributes etc. There are some really nice ideas there. Its like a healing patch for Trek fans who were left out in the cold for nearly two decades.

On the other hand, the writing is somewhat shoddy, or at best uneven. The storyline, while not bad, is rather haphazard. It tries to advance the format with the series trends of today - season-long story arch, dark themes, pompous action - but fails a lot. Some boring/lame story lines. Some main characters shallow, some actors not living up to the task. Plot holes galore, especially towards the end of the season, with the season finale being a huge mishmash - it was probably rewritten in the very end.

That said, I'm overall happy that this was created. It feels like a honest attempt to continue the legacy of 90s Star Trek, which I never would have thought would happen.

The show is hard to defend, in particular if you cherish Star Trek of the past. It's the typical modern/Kurtzman Trek on steroids. The Story is a carbon copy of other things (exploding Moon/Star from Star Trek 6; Android arc, admonition etc from Mass Effect) and frankly doesn't make any sense at the end. Romulans have always been an immensely advanced and powerful race in the canon, yet here they are portrayed helpless. And it's hard to swallow the thinly veiled politics forced down your throat in the first episodes.

The relationships between the characters have apparently not been understood by the writers. Do you know the difference between TNG-Picard and movie-picard? TNG-Picard is not there. The first reaction from Riker when reunited is "oh you're in trouble again" - the writers have not seen a single episode of TNG. The relationship between Data and Picard is comically misrepresented although I can see the need for that if they make the Data arc so central. Same for the entire character of 7o9 who had quite a nuanced development during Voyager thanks to the brilliant Jeri Ryan was wasted as a gunslinger.

The new characters are a mixed bag. Some of them are good actors and do have worthwhile moments (Jirati, Vash & Siblings), some are undefined and one-dimensional (Narissa, Commodore Oh) and some are cringe-inducing and have no place in a Star Trek universe (Raffi "JL JL JL", Rios). The best new characters Laris and Zhaban are unfortunately only in the first three episodes.

A lot of things from the past are thrown around as fan-service. We have a borg arc that goes nowhere, an antique Romulan warbird that simply appears to pew pew and than is never heard of again. We have Picard Maneuver/Stargazer reference, not to forget Hugh, Icheb etc. And the story itself is a backdrop at best. In the finale we have a magic Deus Ex repair device that saves the day. And a grand speech about Data wanting to die because only permanent death makes life worth what it is - and a minute later the writers magically resurrect Picard from the dead. I don't think they see the irony. Also the show has a peculiar affinity for made up words and using them excessively. And everyone really loves motion controls now. And starfleet admirals say "fuck" a lot now.

It does have some redeeming qualities though: Seeing the old cast again is nice, at least Riker and Troi are portrayed somewhat believable. I enjoyed the show until the middle but if you're not overly bothered by the things above or don't know any Star Trek maybe it fares better for you.

See also the riskier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbow_bump

Wow, created in 2008!

This made me think: Given that most of society uses technology, but it's the "nerds" that define much of how it works, how does that affect culture? Some things that may be niche, becomes part of the mainstream as it's the niche group deciding.

Wave gesture, already quite common handshake alternative (or offensive gesture depending the country!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_(gesture)

> ... may be interpreted differently or even be highly offensive in South Korea, Europe, Nigeria, Greece, Bulgaria, Latin American countries, India, Japan, and other places.

IMO it is too impersonal (even rude as a forceful "attention here") and even meaningless (where Vulcan has more desirable connotations: space exploration, rationality, prosperity, unity). Though I'm not sure how widespread the cocept is.

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