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Comment by doggodad | Hacker News Reader

US gas prices are down to $0.95 - $0.97 / gallon.

Seems like it could go lower, but maybe stations and refineries won't reduce prices to maintain profits.

18.4 cents per gallon is a federal tax. States and local governments add on various sales and per gallon taxes that average close to $0.50 per gallon, though the sales tax portion will have driven some of that tax cost down. California adds 58.8 cents per gallon of taxes plus a 2.25% sales tax. Other states can be much lower but no matter where you are, there's a price floor due to taxes.

The real question I haven't seen much discussion of, is who covers state and local govts massive loss of tax revenue. They cant print money like the fed.

Is the fed going to monetize their debt as well?

They can raise property gax, income tax, or gas tax, and yes the Fed govt can print money and grant it to states, as it does for highways and Medicaid.

I think 17% of that 2 trillion is going to directly to state and local governments. And a much of the rest of it will be indirectly taxed by state and local governments in various ways. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-anatomy-of-the-2-trilli...

That doesn't actually follow. If the station across the street is selling at a loss, you can either keep prices high and make zero revenue, or sell at a loss and make some revenue.

Of course you'll go out of business after a while below that floor so this situation wouldn't be sustainable, but it's consistent with economics that it could happen. (edit: I guess saudi arabia et al. are pretty much in this position now)

Why would making revenue be preferable in this case? If I have to buy gas for $1 a gallon from my supplier and can only sell it for $0.90, why not close up shop for awhile, then I don't have to deal with maintenance, don't have to pay the cashier, etc.

Sure if you have fixed costs like debt you have to pay you may make a loss on your business as a whole, but selling at negative gross margins only makes sense if you're somehow being strategic about it.

I was assuming the station already paid for the gas...I think it depends on whether that's true or not.

> US gas prices are down to $0.95 - $0.97 / gallon.

In a few places maybe. For the vast majority of the US no, at least not yet.

indeed. gas buddy shows my local (Portland) stations at $2.29 minimum (Costco) and $2.95 in the top 10 cheapest (Chevron).

And gas station owners know they can still hose idiots like me who drive cars that require 93 octane. Still paying $3.10 in suburban Chicago.

$0.99/gal today in NOLA (https://www.reddit.com/r/NewOrleans/comments/fs4nts/walked_p...).

Generally, I've found that prices go up about $0.10/gal for each state you get away from the gulf coast (at least in the eastern US). Sometimes there's a few days delay to consider, too.

Where are you seeing these numbers, a simple check of the AAA national average puts it at 1.997 and the lowest average at 1.556.

https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/

Gas futures (RBOB) are currently trading at slightly over 50 cents a gallon:

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/refined-products/rbo...

Of course the realities of the supply chain won't allow 50 cents a gallon fuel in the US, but it's interesting that April contracts (RBJ20) settled around this $0.55 mark - deliveries will shortly be happening at these ridiculous prices.

The numbers given there aren't accurate for my region. Or maybe they're some number of days behind.

Time to double or triple the federal gas tax

This is not a bad idea. Cap the prices to $2.50/gallon and whatever the difference is should be all taxed.

This is an especially good idea for any politician who hates the idea of being re-elected.

h0h0h0 tax increases are coming, you think this $4T bill will pay itself? i fully expect gas prices to rubberband back to the $3-$4 range before this decade has gotten fully underway.

until then, i've unexpectedly found myself in a great place to be with a recently modified turbocharger on a family sedan ]:-)

Is the political climate really this anti-environment in the US? In other long-distances western countries there is much better gas taxation.

Last I saw was $1.88 here in Iowa. I guess it could be headed lower though.

Still more than $3 in California.

Doesn't California have crazy fuel taxes? Or is there some other reason for their always high prices?

Yeah, we have pretty high fuel taxes but it's a good deterrent for driving since we have high smog too. Adding taxes and having high emissions standards really helped reduce a ton of smog in the air since the 80s

In the summer we use a special blend of gas that costs more due the heat causing an inversion(?) I think

High smog in all of California? Or just in those awful cities? Seems crazy to dictate taxes across the entire of a large state just because the urban areas have smog.

Urban areas tend to have higher smog concentrations, but most gases aren't known for their tendency to avoid travel and diffusion. Emissions have non-local effects. Some might even say global.

Additionally, gas taxes are about the most straightforward road use fee right now.

Still, non-metro areas tend to get a break. Never understood exactly why but my theory is either additional county/muni taxes, or real estate tends to be cheaper and with it station overhead. This goes out the window if it's an isolated refill chance, though, in which case it's whatever the market will bear.

Special formulation for gas limits supply as well.

No, gas tax in California is just 2 cents higher per gallon than in Pennsylvania, while the price at the pump is 80 cents higher (as per https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/02/06/states-with-... ). The oil companies claim it has to do with the special formulation decreasing the competition in the local market. Then again, maybe they're successfully acting as a cartel.

"Crazy" isn't the best choice of words. It has a loaded (negative) connotation.

California has high fuel taxes relative to other US states. It has low fuel taxes compared to most other countries. From random source [1], California is $0.35 per gallon. Fuel taxes in Canada vary from $0.64 to $1.55 per US gallon [2].

[1] https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/california/gasoline-fuel

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_fuel_taxes_in_Canada

Right now in vancouver bc, lowest I seen is 0.934$ cad per liter.

That's about $2.51 USD/galon.

We had the highest gas in north America for awhile (we might still do) in part taxes... we were one of first unfortunate folks to have high taxes and carbon taxes for years.

-i have paid more than 5$ USD/gallon for 91 octane gas =/

Don’t fret, it was $5.09 here a couple years ago. And we don’t even have the high fuel taxes :/

Without getting too far off topic: I sincerely wish we had higher taxes on fuel in the rest of Canada (and commensurate increase in relief for lower income folks whom it would disproportionately affect). Everyone complains about the price of gas, but no one cares to change their behaviour and purchasing habits in response. I drive the smallest, most fuel efficient hatchback I could buy 8 years ago, and intend to buy an electric car whenever I move on from this one. I do it for environmental reasons, but the economics don't hurt, either! I've saved 4000+ liters of gas compared to the SUVs/MUVs that most people buy these days.

This article is a good summary of the various factors:

https://www.kqed.org/news/11755264/why-is-gas-so-expensive-i...

This is mostly due to tax.

In Sacramento area it's like 2.40, I have seen it as low as 2.19 at the cheapest place.

California is tier 3 gas which is more costly to produce. I think the rest of the US has to 2025 to change over.

$2.40 to $2.60 in San Jose, CA.

similar - places around us (outside raleigh) are still $1.89 last several days.

this is likely due to lower demand still buying through gas from weeks prior. Prices are usually updated at the pump when a new truck brings a new delivery.

apex costco - $1.49

I paid $0.99 at Costco in OKC, OK on March 25th. I'm not sure what the price is now.

They're a big oil producing state, right? So probably always have among the lowest gas prices?

Alaska also produces a ton of oil, but gas is crazy expensive since it's mostly refined far, far away.

gasbuddy.com has a nice map of user-reported gas prices (https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap?_ga=2.108840642.1740344...) and yes, Oklahoma's among the lowest prices, specifically the area just east of Oklahoma City.

$2.49 in Fountain Valley CA (that's Orange county); a very good price right now out here.

Where? It’s still above $2 in MA

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