Two Chainsaw Secrets – Turning a Tree into Perfect Boards (2019) [video] | Hacker News Reader

Two Chainsaw Secrets – Turning a Tree into Perfect Boards (2019) [video]

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What is not obvious to the uninitiated is his saw-sharpening skills. His depth gauges, bar rails and teeth lengths are spot-on. Getting these all right is necessary for any kind of board cutting with a chainsaw.

His techniques are innovative if you are accustomed to other forms of board cutting but its certainly not as simple as grabbing a chainsaw and swinging the tip.

The number of people around who use chainsaws and can't sharpen them to a rudimentary level let alone this guys level of precision leads me to think there are going to be some disappointed people who try this off the bat - if you arent reasonably experienced with sharpening then you will get away with a brand new bar and chain cutting straight...for a while.

Also, safety first people. Chainsaws are horrendously dangerous even for experienced people. Always wear boots, leggings, ear and eye protection.

I mean, you don't have to sharpen them yourself. All it takes is a good stash of chains, and someone in the area who does it, and you can drop off half of them and pick up the other half every time you swing by, it's not that big of a deal.

Yep, there are even machines to do it quickly.

Still nice to know how to sharpen a chain to a certain degree so you don't have to change the chain multiple times before lunch.

Changing the chain easily takes a few minutes (opening the side, loosen the chain, change chains, tightening the new one to correct tension, closing the side.)

This reminded me of my childhood. I grew up spending every afternoon in my grandpa’s workshop where the sign read “Bud’s saw sharpening” he also did tv and radio repair. It was a fascinating magical place where I could tinker and look through his old Popular Mechanics while he meticulously sharpened chains and various blades on specialized equipment. He had one small room that was packed with vacuum tubes. I would open each box up and marvel at the technology. I can’t imagine how valuable all that stuff would be now.

Plus one on the boots. I was 19 when I used a chainsaw for the first time. One month into the job, I was given a pair of steel toecap boots. That was also the day I accidentally ran the saw through my feet. The steel toecaps is the reason I can still walk.

Extra anecdote... I worked with a chainsaw master. We worked together on removing a tree that was overhanging a house, leaning heavily into it. With a hinge cut, he got the tree to fall in the opposite direction... essentially to fall uphill.

I brought a "portable" sawmill[1] a few years back, after doing a fair bit of research around this.

As I looked into it it seemed that there were some major caveats to making boards with a chainsaw. 1. It's slow, 2. One looses a lot of wood due to the chain kerf (thickness), 3. Regular chain sharpening is needed. On the other hand, it is pretty portable as this video shows.

I ended up going with the sawmill because it addressed these concerns. The downside being that one has to bring the logs to it. Cost wise it compared pretty equally to larger chainsaw mills I was looking at.

Having now used it for a coupe of years, my thoughts are:

0. It is amazing to see in action. I recommend watching the videos, but in person it is even better. It's the first think you need in order to become a Bond villain.

1. You need a lot of boards to cover a floor or a wall. It is hard work with my mill, and I wouldn't want to do it with a chainsaw.

2. It is surprisingly tiring (I find anything involving forestry is pretty hard on the body)

3. You will struggle to make a business out of it (I knew this going in, but just to reiterate)

4. Making straight lumber is a little tricky. Trying to do it is trees below 30cm in diameter is pointless. Making boards with a live (i.e. wiggly) edge is the sweet spot.

5. While I was super excited about this, it was actually the woodland mills wood chipper that was the better investment.

That all being said, it is amazing go fell a tree, then drag it over to the sawmill, cut it, then go and nail it up!

[1]: https://woodlandmills.eu/product/hm126/

What are you using it for?

Mostly making boards for cladding structures with. It is pretty good for this purpose.

Agree. A chain saw and a saw mill are different devices. different functions altogether. And replacing a circular saw blade is easier and cheaper (on my time) than sharpening a chain saw.

Also... "No Mr. bond, I expect you to die" is my favorite Bond line.

Interesting approach --- I wouldn't have guessed that results would turn out as even as they seem to. I spent yesterday sawing some 20" cherry with an Alaskan Mill. I've finally got a good setup with a good saw (Stihl 462) but it's annoying how slow the process is even when it goes well. And it's discouraging how often one needs to resharpen the chain to cut effectively: at least every 30' of cut seems about right.

His birch-stump-chainsaw-vice at 7:47 is incredible: https://youtu.be/8qz64ELkxdA?t=468

I'm not convinced by his theory about why using the tip of the chainsaw helps. Rather than just being the effect of fewer teeth, I'm wondering if it might have a lot to do with the "increased effective raker depth" when the chain goes over the rounded tip.

I'm still a bit confused how he starts the cut. Somewhere deep in the comments, he says: "First, you start a shallow straight cut along the guide wire with your chain saw’s tip. Once you have a shallow straight cut you start the swinging motions as shown in the video..." It seems like this would be essential, and hard. Guess I'll have to try it.

> how he starts the cut.

He packs a whole lot into this vid; longest example of starting I found is a few seconds at 11:15.

He really does. Impressed to see this on Hacker News.

> I'm not convinced by his theory about why using the tip of the chainsaw helps. Rather than just being the effect of fewer teeth, I'm wondering if it might have a lot to do with the "increased effective raker depth" when the chain goes over the rounded tip.

I dunno. Sounds plausible to me, at least partly. With the tip you've only got a few teeth trying to take out bites of wood so they get more wood per bite. As for the lower gas usage, it's probably partly like he says and partly friction. A vertical cut means your saw isn't working so hard ejecting sawdust, and you aren't fighting gravity. I notice he wasn't using any wedges with his alaskan mill set up, so the board is trying to fall into the blade the entire time. From the videos I've seen, it seems to be a step that a lot of people omit.

Also am I imagining it or is his chainsaw ingesting a lot more dust in the horizontal cuts than the vertical?

> With the tip you've only got a few teeth trying to take out bites of wood so they get more wood per bite

Thinking about it more, I'm pretty sure the bigger difference is the direction of the wood fibers relative to the chain. The fibers can be visualized as a bundle of straws. In "normal" Alaskan milling, you are cutting almost perpendicular to the straws. In his approach, you are cutting almost parallel to the straws. Cutting perpendicular takes the most force, produces the smallest chips, and makes the smoothest cut. Cutting parallel rips out fibers, takes less force, and isn't quite as smooth.

> I notice he wasn't using any wedges with his alaskan mill set up, so the board is trying to fall into the blade the entire time.

Somewhere deep in the comments he mentioned he was using wedges, but they just weren't in the video. I don't think wedges make a big difference during the cut, though. The newly cut board is still completely supported at the joint, and bar tends to slide backward freely if the saw is turned off. Where the wedges matter most is at the very end of the cut, once the new board is no longer supported.

> Also am I imagining it or is his chainsaw ingesting a lot more dust in the horizontal cuts than the vertical?

It's probably a tiny bit more, but this doesn't seem to be a big issue. The air intake is well separated from the chip exit, and if your chain is sharp the chips are large enough to fall quickly to the ground. I check the air filter after milling, and it doesn't seem to get clogged any more rapidly than during regular chainsaw use.

> Thinking about it more, I'm pretty sure the bigger difference is the direction of the wood fibers relative to the chain.

You might have it there. Chainsaws are crosscutting saws by design, right? A mill is using the same chain as a rip saw. The shavings he gets by using the tip look like chisel work which is what you want in a rip saw. More material removed with fewer fibers cut.

I guess there are ripping chains. Would be interesting to see him set one saw up for the rip cut and compare the two side by side.

His ripper chain and the file angles he uses are critical as well. I too have been frustrated with the slowness of the Alaskan mill.

If you haven't seen it yet, this is the same guy that came up with an insanely cool tool to create polymer rope out of PET bottles: https://youtu.be/GSBh77bjz_Q. The older video was pretty widely circulated a couple of years ago, if I recall correctly.

I got addicted to his bushcraft videos awhile back- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfD3XjTDLE0 is an intro to a lot of his various projects, which are really amazing.

In fact, seeing this again finally gave me the inspiration for tackling a red oak log that is way too large to just turn into firewood.

Also, this quote: "As it often happens, it takes years to acquire simple wisdom"

I believe that it's the impact of Covid 19 that has propelled this video onto the front page of Hacker News. Tons of people are doing DIY, gardening etc because of it and learning those skills on youtube. There is one channel I've discovered and though its creator is ostensibly just a carpenter he's also a historian, philosopher , a jack of all building trades and a wonderful communicator. I give you the Essential Craftsman https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzr30osBdTmuFUS8IfXtXmg

Essential Craftsman is a great channel. I found it when it was mentioned on an HN thread about This Old House - also awesome YouTube content. There’s a bunch more on that thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19961723

One of my favs is plumberparts (in the Uk). James has got me from not knowing anything about plumbing to installing my own kitchen and bathroom - and he doesn’t even know it. https://www.youtube.com/user/plumberparts

Also, Robin Clevett (rafter / carpenter) is great (https://www.youtube.com/user/ukconstruction). Found him from the Skill Builder channel when he demoed the Scarf Joint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SUtoKKNKHQ). Transpires he's building an amazing house about 10 minutes from me (which is where he's doing that Scarf Joint).

I strongly suggest that people using chainsaws wear some protective gear. Minimum - steel capped boots, safety glasses and mask and proper gloves. Best idea - proper chainsaw trousers.

What you need to realize are four things.

1) Working with a chainsaw is tiring, it is really easy to get careless not because you aren't smart or savvy, but because you are knackered. This is the moment when you do something like put the saw on your toe or leg.

2) Things fly around around chainsaws, splinters stones, bits of chainsaw even. If they fly into your eye or into your hand you may well flinch or jump and slice yourself, even if you have the self control of a ninja.

3) Chainsaw injuries are really nasty, they are hard to fix and go septic even when fixed well, a small looking cut could mean you get to have your leg sawn off.

4) You need to have a plan and training - don't just pick up a chainsaw and start carving things up - make sure that you know how to use it.

Also it's good to know that they thing is safe and in order - which means that the safety cut out should work (the reason my last one got scrapped) - and the thing is oiling the chain properly and the chain is good.

(5) Pay trained professionals to do chainsaw work. If you don’t have the time to learn how to use a chainsaw professionally, don’t use it.

You just convinced me not to use a chainsaw. Thank you for making me aware of the wound thing. I have heard that the sharper the blade, the cleaner the cut. I would imagine the reason for chainsaw sepsis would be due to being all greasy and blunt, compensated by motor power?

The chainsaw will cut and pulverized a 1 cm thick band out of the leg, compounded by a variable depth means it's not a normal cut, you have two ends that have a gap that doesn't easily mend back together and goes septic often requiring a separate surgery to remove the limb completely in a surgical setting.

> I strongly suggest that people using chainsaws wear some protective gear. Minimum - steel capped boots, safety glasses and mask and proper gloves. Best idea - proper chainsaw trousers.

Ear protection too. Working with chainsaws (and similar equipment) all day long is not great for hearing in the long term (though admittedly less dramatic then slicing a toe off.)

Well, TIL as the saying goes. I assumed chainsaw trousers were a kind of metal mail armour, but no. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainsaw_safety_clothing

"The outermost layer [of chainsaw protective fabric] can be made both tough and slippery, to protect against minor damage which could compromise the filler material. Beneath this, long, loose fibres of polyester, Avertic, ballistic nylon or Kevlar are laid in layers. When a saw contacts the trousers, the outer layer is immediately cut through but the inner is drawn out and wraps around the saw's drive sprocket, locking it solid and halting the chain, limiting damage to the operator's leg"

A video for the curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWsv3Jp8Cs

That's a pretty clever mechanism. Is it possible to clear all that stuff out, or is the saw completely sacrificed in the process of saving your leg?

Nah, follow wiki link, it tells you more "After stopping a saw, the damaged trousers must be scrapped, having done their job. The saw must be field-stripped to remove the fibres, and to allow it to run again."

Thanks for this. I too was curious about chainsaw pants, but not quite curious enough to go look it up on my own since I have no plans of becoming a lumber jack. However, since you did do the leg work, I'm too realized that what my imagination concluded these pants were was nothing like reality.

Yup. If I’m doing something quick, then I’ll just use ear protectors - if I’m doing any kind of extended work, then it’s boots, gloves, shin guards, ears, face shield.

I only had to use a chainsaw once without ear protection to swear to never do so again.

Electric models are much quieter. You still need safety gear though.

Yeah, but the cost difference is substantial. Considering getting a dinky makita electric one for small work, but for a day of lumber work you can’t beat the energy density of a can of gas.

5) If you're cutting into tree that's an active system there's compression and tension in the wood your cutting which can either bind up the blade or make the saw kick, or both. Have a plan for the thing you cut. Where will the fall, where will you be etc.

6) Trees store an amazing amount of potential energy, both from gravity and bent spring members. Logs seemingly safe on the ground can roll and crush you, falling trees can leap backwards at you from the cut or not hinge how you plan. Search "barber chair" and "widowmaker" accidents. All this with uncertain footing in brush and an angry saw in your tired hand. Be careful out there.

+1, they are no joke.

I was hoping to use my mandatory staycation time to get some chainsaw work done around my property (6 acres); unfortunately both need maintenenace work (bad carb, loose chain that won't tighten). I started doing repairs myself and then remembered:

Should an injury happen I'd be a burden on the already taxed healthcare system.

And so back into the garage the saws went, I'll do the work in the fall when I can get them into a repair shop ...

That said, I can see/hear from my window that my next door neighbour (whose landscaping business is shut down because of COVID...) has a buddy over, cutting up old logs with a chainsaw, using their backhoe to move the logs around, not maintaining social distance... Hurray...

We bought a high-end gas model and an eGo 14” for “light” work.

Dozens of trees (and zero maintenance) later, the eGo has gone through everything we’ve thrown at it, and the gas model has never been fired up.

The battery is usually going strong after we’re exhausted, and we have spares due to owning other eGo tools. Also, is is extremely quiet, and there’s no air pollution (other than aerosolized bar oil). I can’t recommend it highly enough.

Yes at this point I'd love to sell my smaller Echo and replace with electric for lighter duty work. The larger is the one that needs carberator work.

But none of this will happen until after the staycation is over

> Should an injury happen I'd be a burden on the already taxed healthcare system.

Same reason I'm using my motorcycle as sparingly as possible and for essential tasks only (running medication/food to my mum and friend who are both totally isolated).

If I had a car I'd be using that, I don't go out with the expectation of an accident but shit does happen.

On reddits r/winstupidprizes, they often feature videos of chainsaw kick-backs. It is when the saw, instead of cutting, uses all the force in the chain to push back - it is very unnerving seeing this happen to people without gear, even if they are lucky and don't get hit.

Kick-back is something that makes sense when you read about it, but you probably wouldn't think about if you just picked up a chainsaw.

As far as I’m aware there isn’t really any equipment that’ll help with kickback, other than a built in kickback bar. A full face shield might help, I suppose.

My dad had a coworker that had a kickback accident on the job. It apparently cut all the way to his carotid or jugular - as in, one more millimeter and he would have been a goner.

Second this:

I actually had forestry in school (went to farming school for 18 months).

A mandatory part of the education was a video with reconstructions of some of the ways farmers get killed or injured, things like getting crushed by the tractor because the brakes didn't work or getting jammed in the winch while pulling logs.

Close to where I grew up someone about the age of my dad nearly cut his left leg of, bit saved his life by getting into the tractor and IIRC using his right leg to handle the clutch so he could get the tractor running to get home to call for help (yep, no cell phones back then).

Step one, draw a circle. Step two draw the rest of the owl.

I can't help but feel its not as easy or fool proof as it looks.

Wood is a weird material. The way you cut it will change how it warps when it dries. It’s hard to get ideal boards out of a cylinder. They different cut types lead to different result.

https://www.archdaily.com/894449/how-tree-trunks-are-cut-to-...

http://seanhellman.blogspot.com/2013/06/warping-wood-how-woo...

Our hackerspace used to be adjacent to a foresting school. We often had "hacking" days [0] to prepare wood for our heater that would warm our space trough hacked together central heating[1]. One of those days the people of the foresting school saw us (mostly me probably) handling a chainsaw and it scared the shit out of them. Half neighbourly friendlyness and half fear of a chainsaw accident happening right next door to their school being bad publicity they offered us a free lesson in chainsaw handling and maintenance[2].

It was a fun experience and very educative and would be well worth the money you'd normally pay for such a lesson. I never knew there was so much to properly handling and maintaining a chainsaw.

[0] https://hack42.nl/blog/2012/01/zaagtiviteit [1] https://hack42.nl/blog/2011/12/billige-waerme [2] https://hack42.nl/wiki/2013-07-19_Kettingzaagles

Since he's building a cabin, it feels like a link to Dick Proenneke is obligatory:

https://youtu.be/wTT9IIVxonc

Completely counter-intuitive, but the results are plain to see. And the size of those boards! (No need to go to the gym any more using this method either. Whoofda.)

Seasoned chain saw operator here.

I'm not sure I'd try that. If you catch the front (round) part of the blade in the wood, it greatly increases the danger of 'kickback'. (Good way to slash yourself in the face.)

If you try it, please be extra, extra cautious.

This is why I like hacker news...

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